16

Subject Versus Object Pronouns

There are two situations that trip people up in choosing between subject and object pronouns. They are coordinate noun phrases like John and I (especially after between, as in between you and me) and anything to do with whom and especially whomever. We’ll look at those separately.

Subject Versus Object Pronouns in Coordinate Noun Phrases

When posed with a choice between John and I and John and me, people think I is the safe choice. After all, lots of kids get scolded for using me in sentences like Bobby and me are eating lunch, but almost no one gets in trouble for using I. We walk away with the impression that I, by default, is more proper, more polite, and more educated. But depending on the sentence, I can be ungrammatical.

Thanks for taking the time to meet with Walter and I.

(Incorrect.)

Before we go any further, it’s important to note that idiom allows this structure. It also allows Bobby and me went to the movies. If people choose to talk this way, their choice is validated by centuries of usage and legions of experts. So we proceed from here on the assumption that you want to know not just what you can get away with but instead how the rules of syntax apply and what constitutes “proper” English. So with the caveat that it would be a mistake to condemn others for ignoring the following rules, here are the rules.

John and I is nominative. That is, it’s a subject form. John and me is objective, meaning it’s an object.

John and I are watching TV.

(Correct because the coordinate noun phrase is performing the action of the verb.)

Come see John and me.

(Correct because the coordinate noun phrase is the object of the transitive verb see.)

Come watch TV with John and me.

(Correct because the coordinate noun phrase is the object of the preposition with.)

An easy way to get these right is to simply drop John and (or whatever other subjects make up the coordinate noun phrase). Pare it down to just the pronoun, and the answer becomes intuitive. So to know which pronoun follows Thanks for taking time to meet with John and… try it with the pronoun alone.

Thanks for taking the time to meet with I.

(Incorrect because the preposition with doesn’t take a subject pronoun.)

Thanks for taking the time to meet with me.

(Correct because the preposition is paired with the object form me.)

These rules—and the confusion around them—aren’t limited to first person singular pronouns I and me. Third person pronouns he and him and she and her can be more confounding. And first person plural pronouns we and us are arguably even harder.

The office manager is throwing a birthday party for he and I.

(Incorrect because the preposition for takes objective forms him and me.)

The office manager is throwing a birthday party for him and me.

(Correct because him and me are objects of the preposition for.)

The office manager is throwing a birthday party for Zach, Janie, and she.

(Incorrect because the preposition for calls for the object pronoun her instead of the subject pronoun she.)

The office manager is throwing a birthday party for Zach, Janie, and her.

(Correct because her is the object pronoun form functioning as the object of the preposition for.)

Us and Roger are throwing a birthday party for Zach.

(Incorrect because us is an object pronoun doing the job of a subject pronoun we.)

We and Roger are throwing a birthday party for Zach.

(Uses correct case, though in nonstandard order.)

Roger and we are throwing a birthday party for Zach.

(Uses correct case, though in an unpopular construction.)

A few words about those last two examples. They’re both correct. But they both sound awful. That’s not because of the grammar. We is a subject pronoun, so in a coordinate noun phrase functioning as a subject, this is the correct form to use. But it sounds odd because this is, quite simply, a very unpopular way to word a sentence like this. People just don’t use coordinate noun phrases with we or us very often, partly because the other person can usually fall under the umbrella of we. That is, in Roger and we did X, there’s no reason you can’t just include Roger in the pronoun and say, We did X, meaning Roger was part of it.

In the rare cases when the need arises to separate an individual like Roger from a plural pronoun like we, people often just recast the sentence.

With Roger’s help, we are throwing a birthday party for Zach.

Along with Roger, we are throwing a birthday party for Zach.

All of us including Roger are throwing a birthday party for Zach.

(Note that the object form us is correct in this sentence because it’s the object of the preposition.)

But when that’s not an option, the basic rules apply: we is a subject; us is an object, with or without Roger.

You may be wondering whether a first person pronoun like we comes first or last in a coordinate noun phrase. That is, would you say Roger and we are throwing a party or We and Roger? Would you say, The party is for Roger and us or us and Roger?

The answer: there is no right answer. Not from a grammar standpoint, anyway. Grammar has no rules on the order of nouns in a coordinate noun phrase. Yes, you may have heard that it’s polite to put the first person pronoun last. That’s why it’s so odd to say something like I and Stan instead of Stan and I. But this convention is founded exclusively in etiquette, not grammar.

Between You and Me

The grammar of between you and me is no different from what we saw above in our discussion about coordinate noun phrases like John and me and John and I. The only difference is that there’s never a time when I is preferable after between. That’s because between is always a preposition and prepositions always take object forms as their complements. So, according to the rules of syntax, there’s never a reason to use between you and I. For a comparison that drives this point home, consider between us as compared to between we. The latter never works because the latter uses the nominative case pronoun we where the objective case pronoun us is called for.

Again, idiomatic use does allow certain ungrammatical forms, and between you and I is one of them. But if you’re choosing between you and I because you believe between you and me is wrong, you have it wrong.

Common Mistakes with Whom and Whomever

Good news first: you never have to use whom. It’s reserved for “formal” writing and speech. Usage guides never bother to specify which situations are formal and which aren’t. That means it’s up to you to decide when whom is appropriate. If you think it’s appropriate never, then that’s as legitimate as anyone else’s assessment.

Now here’s the bad news: if you decide to use whom, you may be setting yourself up to make mistakes. Most people who think they know how to use whom in fact only know how to use it in simple contexts. But when their sentences get a little more complicated, they start making mistakes. Here’s an example based on a tweet by a bestselling author:

I just saw a man whom I’d always thought was intelligent and kind.

That’s an error. That whom should be who. Here’s another adapted from a Los Angeles Times article:

John Doe, whom police said is a transient known to frequent Santa Monica, was found guilty of two counts of first-degree murder.

Here, too, the whom should be who. In both cases, the writer made the mistake of thinking that the pronoun was the object of the verb of the main clause: saw in the first example and said in the second. Both the writers understood that who is a subject pronoun and whom is an object pronoun. But they didn’t understand that, in each of these sentences, the objects of the verbs saw and said are not single pronouns but whole clauses.

…whom I thought was…contains two clauses: I thought and whom was

…whom police said is…contains two clauses: police said and whom is

In the first example, the object of thought is not the single word whom. It’s a whole clause: whom was, which is wrong. That verb was needs a subject. And because whom can’t be a subject, it should be who: who I thought was.

In the second example, the object of said isn’t whom. It should be the whole clause who is because the verb is needs a subject.

To get a better picture of the role the pronoun is playing, try plugging in another subject pronoun and another object pronoun: he and him.

I thought he was. (Correct.) → I thought him was. (Incorrect.)

Police said he is. (Correct.) → Police said him is. (Incorrect.)

This makes it clear that an object pronoun like him or whom is the wrong choice. And it illustrates how the verbs was and is need subjects, which should be in subject form. In each case, the object of the verb is a whole clause, not the one-word whom.

This problem is even more common with whomever and whoever. These pronouns are almost always at the crossroads of two clauses. Thus, people often assume that the object of the main clause should be whomever instead of the correct whoever plus verb.

I will hire whomever does best on the test.

(Incorrect because the verb does needs a subject.)

I will hire whoever does best on the test.

(Correct.)

In this sentence, the whole clause whoever does best on the test is the object of the verb hire. That clause needs a subject, so the subject form (nominative case) whoever is correct and the object form (objective case) whomever is incorrect.

Now consider these examples, both of which are right:

I will choose whoever likes me.

I will choose whomever I like.

In the first example, whoever is correct because it’s the subject of the verb likes. Together, whoever and likes form a clause that itself is the object of the verb choose.

But in the second example, whomever is the object not of choose but of like. In other words, it’s the object of the second clause. So the object form whomever is correct because the subject of the verb like is I.

So when you see a finite (conjugated) verb like was, is, runs, thinks, and so on in the object clause, you know it needs a subject. In a case like I will choose whomever I like, it already has a subject: I. So it’s clear that whomever is the object of a verb. In a case like I will choose whoever likes me, the verb likes would not have a subject were it not for whoever.

For an easy guideline, remember that when whom or whomever is in position to be both an object and a subject, the subject form wins. Why? Because the real object isn’t a single word. It’s a whole clause.