In the Room
The Mueller team had a definite narrative they were hoping to have me affirm, and Prosecutor Rhee was aggressive in pursuing it. The Mueller Team’s focus was almost entirely directed at establishing a connection between me and Russia. They wanted me to draw a line that extended from my Russian network to Trump. The more they brought up Russia, the more I talked about Georgia. It was like an arm-wrestling match.
I was informed that Michael Cohen had described me to Mueller as having deep ties to Russia.
It was clear that all they cared about was Russia. They wanted me to admit to being Trump’s connection to Russian money, to the infamous kompromat video of Trump in Russia, and to have me confess that Russians I knew were using me to gain leverage against the president. It was preposterous and ridiculous. I made clear that I was no such thing, and I refused to let them make me out as such. I wasn’t even a Russian. I was an American, and I was born in Georgia.
I wasn’t afraid to talk about my contacts in Russia or my knowledge of Russia. When I did, I quickly realized based on their questions that none of the Mueller’s prosecutors really knew much about Russia or understood how Russia really worked.
They never understood that to the Russians, I was always a Georgian. They would never treat me like a Russian national. I could do business there, but it was always as a Georgian. They would never let a Georgian American be the conduit between the Russian government and an American president.
Rhee continued to insist that I was connected to Russia. She told the grand jury that I came from “a prominent Russian family.”
That was the moment when I decided I needed to reassert myself and take control of this narrative by saying, “No, that’s absolutely incorrect.”
That threw her completely off guard.
I explained that my family was not a prominent Russian family. My family is a Georgian family, and there’s a big difference between Georgians and Russians.
She seemed nonplussed.
I again had to explain to everyone sitting there that the difference between being Georgian and being Russian is even more stark than the difference between being American and Russian.
Georgians have been suppressed, repressed, beaten down, and isolated by Russia for a long time. Since independence, every single day the borders of sovereign Georgia are encroached upon by Russia as they try to expand the contested Georgian territories they’ve occupied since 2008.
My family, my business partners, and I have defended Georgia’s interests against Russia for years, and that’s who I am. The only reason my family was in Russia in any way, shape, or form was because Georgians were under the thumb of the Soviet Union. But today Georgia is a sovereign nation. And to call me Russian is to absolutely misrepresent my heritage.
She pushed back, saying I had strong ties to Russia: My grandfather was a great hero in Russia, was he not? My father was a famous scientist who lived in Moscow, did he not? I had spent time in Moscow as a youth. Had even gone to school there. I spoke Russian. I was educated by Russians, and I served in the Russian military. So, in what way was it incorrect to say that my family was prominent in Russia, and connected in Russia?
We went back and forth on this for some forty minutes, by which time I was parched and thirsty. There wasn’t even a glass of water at my table. I don’t know if that was intentional to break me or make me rush my answers. But at that point, I said “I need to get up and have some water.” And I made a kind of joke and said, “Everyone should have some water,” which was a human moment with the jurors.
After I had my water and returned to my seat, the questioning resumed, this time with a focus on Michael Cohen, Donald Trump, and the Trump Tower Moscow deal.