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Question 5: Team Alignment

Do We Have the Right People in the Right Seats Moving in the Right Direction?

The next strategy session with Jeremy started off a little differently. Typically I would meet with the entire team for a few hours to work on one of the seven unavoidable questions, but this time I asked to meet with Jeremy alone before we met with the team. Instead of meeting at the office, we met at a local café just a few blocks away from the church.

I arrived at the café and Jeremy was already seated at a small table in the back. He asked if I wanted something as we headed toward the counter. He laughed at me when he asked what kind of coffee I wanted and I told him, “I don’t drink coffee . . . actually I can’t stand the taste or smell.” He said with a smile, “Why did you want to meet at a place that primarily serves coffee?” I kind of laughed at myself and told him, “I don’t know, probably habit. I have a lot of meetings in coffee places—maybe I’ve gotten used to the smell, but definitely not the taste.” He ordered his coffee, the guy behind the counter figured out something for me to drink, and then Jeremy and I headed back to our table.

As we sat down, Jeremy jumped right into the conversation and asked me, “So why are we meeting without the team?” I told him, “Jeremy, we have made some incredible progress. Think about it. We have been able to clearly identify the mission of this church—something that hasn’t been done at your church in years. We developed a strategy that is simple and easy to understand and most importantly helps you fulfill the mission God has for your church. We have created clear values that are now serving as guidelines for your staff, leadership, and overall ministry. Recently we created the metrics. We have developed a way to truly evaluate the effectiveness of your church, to really know if we are hitting the mark of our mission or if we are simply making false and unrealistic assumptions.”

He quickly chimed in, “I know, it’s been such a great journey so far. I have never, in my entire ministry life, felt so confident about where we are headed and how we’re going to get there. Honestly, I always looked at structuring ministry as a way of not leaning on the Lord to guide me, but boy did I have that wrong. This process has provided so much clarity and I feel more led by Jesus than I ever have before.”

I smiled as I said, “Jeremy, that is so exciting to hear. I am so thrilled that our ministry has been able to help you. You are definitely on the right track.”

As we continued to drink our coffee (well, he drank his and I drank my “froufrou” drink, as people like to call it), I said to Jeremy, “I wanted to meet with you alone before we met with the team.”

“Does this have anything to do with question number five?” he asked.

I said, “You are correct, we are now on number five, team alignment. Do we have the right people in the right seats moving in the right direction?”

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I went on to tell him, “Jeremy, I want to meet with the team about alignment. Primarily alignment with the overall frame we have built: the mission, strategy, values, and metrics. But before we do that, I want to talk with you a little bit about the first part of question number five.”

He looked at me as if he knew what I was about to say. “You’re talking about if I have the right people in the right seats.”

I said, “Yeah, I want to see how you feel about each of the team members and if you believe they are the right ones to take your church to a place of continual and sustainable growth.”

Over the next several minutes, I shared some things with Jeremy that I want to share with you about getting the right people in the right seats. It has been my experience over the years that most pastors will avoid conflict at almost any cost. They would rather let an ineffective staff member continue to serve than confront the situation head-on. The fear of conflict, the fear of how that leader will respond, or the fear of how those closest to the leader will respond becomes overwhelming and so the path of least resistance is chosen over the path of addressing and solving the problem.

When a pastor allows an ineffective leader to continue on the team, the results will look something like this:

  1. Stronger members begin to pick up the slack for the weaker members.
  2. Stronger members begin to resent the weaker members.
  3. Stronger members become less effective.
  4. Stronger members begin to question the pastor’s ability.

Most of the time the stronger members won’t say anything to the pastor, but that doesn’t take away the fact that they are starting to question their leadership. This is why it is so important to know that you have the right people in the right seats, that you are not allowing fear to replace your better judgment, and that you are willing to make the tough calls when they have to be made. They are not easy calls to make and they are definitely not fun, but undoubtedly they are needed.

One other strong point to make about this is that often the pastor will avoid the confrontation with a staff member because that individual has been with them for a long time or they consider them a somewhat-close friend. This is such a difficult place to be in as a leader because the human side and the emotions begin to play a big part in our decision-making process. Believe me, I understand. Because this is a place where many of us will find ourselves, let me take a moment to dive in a little further on this subject. If that person has been with you a long time or you consider them a friend, I realize that it makes it difficult, but you still cannot avoid the conversation. Give grace and mercy, but also give honesty. You need to tell them how you feel and how their lack of effort or effectiveness is creating unnecessary challenges. Remember, to be unclear is to be unkind.

If there are still no changes following your conversation, then you must have a second conversation and raise the intensity a little. Pray that they will fall into line, but if they don’t, you may need to make a tough call about their future. If you can find them another seat on the bus where they would be more effective, then it could be a win. However, be very careful when doing this. Often we will talk ourselves into the idea that an ineffective staff member is suddenly doing a great job when in reality they are not. We talk ourselves into this to ultimately avoid what we know is inevitable. Always remember that sometimes you have to choose leadership over friendship. When I first heard this I fought it. The statement felt so wrong to me and so far from the grace, mercy, and love that I thought Jesus would want me to exercise. But as I’ve matured in my leadership, I realize that this statement, although hard to swallow, is real and right. That’s what separates good leaders from great leaders: the ability to make the tough decisions. If there is someone on your team who you have avoided a conversation with, don’t put it off any longer. If you do, your stronger team members will start questioning you, either in the privacy of their hearts or to one another.

I said all this to Jeremy and it was obvious that his wheels were spinning. He was nodding his head the entire time as if to say, “I agree,” or maybe even, “Been there, done that.” We dialogued a little about one of the members on his team. He told me that for some time now this person had shown little or no productivity. I asked him if he had talked with the man, and regrettably, Jeremy told me that he had mentioned it but never really dealt with it. We discussed the potential of this person in a different seat on the bus and what that would look like. I told him the same thing I tell everyone: you have to have the tough talk with him. Give it some time to see how he responds, and if necessary, discuss it again, but with more intensity and with consequences.

I told Jeremy the story of a longtime friend who became an executive pastor at a church on the East Coast. The church had been in existence for many years. It was a great church, with great people, doing lots of wonderful ministry in the community and around the world; however, the lead pastor felt like the church was stuck and was hoping that the hiring of my friend as the executive pastor would help resolve the problem. The attendance of the church was much higher than the national average; it ran between 1,400 and 1,500 on Sunday mornings. Although in most circles that would be considered a large church, the lead pastor was still frustrated because whether you are 150 or 1,500, being stuck is never fun.

My friend took this position and began to evaluate the entire church. He evaluated the staff, the ministries, the facilities, the programs, the events, the processes, the finances, the departments, the volunteers, and of course the leadership teams. After evaluating all of this, he set up a time to meet with the lead pastor. He told him about some changes that needed to be made, processes that needed to be put into place, and financial practices that needed to be adjusted. However, the tough area of discussion was the staff. He told the lead pastor about some staff changes that needed to be made. My friend wasn’t sure how the lead pastor would take this news, but to his surprise, the pastor didn’t seem to be fazed. It was like he already knew the staff changes that needed to be made, but he just kept delaying those decisions in order to avoid the pain that would be associated with them. This is where a lot of leaders live—delaying decisions to avoid the pain. What I have found, though, is that in many cases a leader is only one tough decision away from a breakthrough. I told Jeremy that this lead pastor made the tough decision. It wasn’t easy, but he made it. The result was that the church literally tripled in size over the next five years. I told Jeremy that I know making tough decisions isn’t easy, because in most cases we don’t want anyone to get hurt, which is a good thing. However, in our desire to not hurt anyone, we unintentionally hinder the potential of our church.

Jeremy was nodding his head the whole time, agreeing with each statement. I could see that he was really contemplating the discussion. Then Jeremy asked me the question that we are often asked by the affiliates we are helping: “What should I look for in future staff members so I can limit the hiring mistakes in the future?” He turned the page over on his notepad (I loved that about him, always taking notes), and we dove in to the qualities to look for when bringing on a new member to your team.

  1. Results driven—You are looking for people who have a track record of getting things done. You don’t need to constantly look over their shoulder because they have proven in their history that if they are assigned a task, it will be completed. In short, they flat out know how to produce. You don’t want team members who have to-do lists you will have to keep track of along with your own. Believe me, this can be very exhausting and very frustrating.
  2. Highly influential—This is the kind of leader who possesses two major qualities. First, they have a way of influencing people. They know how to move and motivate a group toward a common cause. People want to serve under them because these people know how to positively influence them. Second, they are likeable. You can teach a lot of skills, but it’s very hard to teach “people skills.” You are looking for the type of person that others want to be around, not the kind of person you find yourself continually apologizing for or making excuses for.
  3. Can add value to you, the team, and the church—A potential hire can add value through several vehicles: the ideas they bring to the table, the way they speak life into those around them, the resources they provide that help another person grow, the way they make the people and the organization better because they are part of it. That is what a person who adds value does and that is what you are looking for in a potential leader who may join your team.
  4. Consistently develops their personal leadership and the leaders around them—This has got to be included in your profile of the kind of leader you want joining your team. They know how to develop leaders. This is quite different than simply grabbing someone to oversee the ushers or greeters ministry. To do this you have to be able to identify potential, develop the person, and create a strong leader for the ministry. They know how to bring out the best in people and take the time necessary to develop their hidden potential. However, this cannot happen if the leader is not growing themselves. They have to be a lifelong learner. They cannot take other people to a place they have not been themselves. You want a leader who develops others and can do so because they read books, listen to podcasts, seek out mentors, and never ever stop growing. Leaders are always growing and are always raising up others around them.
  5. Knows how to build teams—Not only must they know how to develop leaders, but they have to know how to build, motivate, and inspire teams. This means that if there is a ministry that needs to be developed, they know how to put together the blueprint. This includes the mission behind the ministry, the organizational chart, the ministry descriptions, and the culture this ministry needs to have. It’s not just getting a handful of people and saying, “Here’s your job.” It’s developing the structure of the team and recruiting the right people. You need the people you put on your team to have the ability to do this. If they don’t, you will eventually become frustrated with them.
  6. Provides ideas and solutions—You want the type of team members that add value when they sit at the table. They have great ideas when strategizing on a certain subject. They aren’t afraid to think outside the box or introduce an idea that has never been done. They also know how to create solutions rather than simply identifying the problem. They approach both strategy and challenges with creativity and optimism.
  7. Committed to the vision—You’ve got to find team members who are committed to what God has called your church to be and do. I have often seen staff members or leaders who are more committed to their department than they are committed to the overall vision. This doesn’t appear to be harmful at first glance, but if you evaluate it up close, you will find a group of leaders isolated in their specific department and not truly functioning as a team. That’s why having team members committed to the vision is so important, because more than one vision will always create division. Please note: You cannot have a team member committed to the vision if you as the leader are not clear with the vision. This is why the earlier chapters are so crucial. You must be clear about what you do and how you get it done (mission and strategy). You cannot expect your team to follow a path that has not been clearly identified. In the absence of clarity, people will always draw their own conclusion.
  8. Possesses uncommon positive attitude—On a group coaching call that we were hosting, the speaker/coach was my good friend and mentor Dan Reiland. Someone asked him, “I have a staff member who has a bad attitude. I’ve encouraged and coached him, but he doesn’t change. What should I do?” Dan quickly and unapologetically said, “Fire him.” The pastor who had asked the question was somewhat shocked and said, “Really?” Dan said, “Yes, of course. You can get a bad attitude from a volunteer for free, you don’t need to pay a staff member for it.” I still laugh when I think about that call, but you have to admit Dan is right. You cannot tolerate a negative attitude from key staff/leaders. You are looking for those who have an uncommon positive attitude, who know the difference between sharing concerns and sharing complaints. They are not negative and hypercritical to you, to others, or in a meeting with your entire team. They are the opposite. They bring a positive, can-do attitude. They speak, think, and believe the best about others and about the ministry they serve. Do not allow negative leaders to be a part of your team. Learn from the words of Paul when he wrote about the bad leaven . . . it ruins the whole lump (1 Cor. 5:6).
  9. Emotionally healthy—As harsh as this may sound, your team is not a rehabilitation center. The people you bring on your team (especially in paid positions) need to already have a level of emotional health to their lives. If they are not emotionally healthy, you are going to spend a ton of what I call “sideways energy.” Emotionally healthy looks something like this: They live by the Matthew 18 principle, in that if they have a problem with someone they approach that person and deal with it rather than conducting unhealthy back-office talk. They are comfortable in unfiltered debate and conversations. They don’t operate from a platform of insecurity and fear that causes people to have to walk on eggshells around them. I am absolutely blown away by how much of this emotionally unhealthy dynamic is found in staff and leaders in churches across America. I would go so far as to say that with all the churches South Hills has worked with, it is extremely rare to find staffs who are completely healthy. If you overlook this portion of the profile in a staff member or leader you bring on the team, you may be signing up for a lot of unnecessary sideways energy. Always remember that “attitudes are never content until they are expressed.” If you bring a leader on the team who doesn’t know how to process their feelings in a healthy manner, then you are the one who will pay the price. That’s why I always say, “If you hire hard, you’ll manage easy.”
  10. Loyal—Last but not least, you are looking for people who have a track record of loyalty—the type of leaders about whom you would be able to say, “My name is safe in their mouth.” You want to work with team members whom you know you can trust, who will talk to you rather than about you. Having this kind of loyalty is so liberating. You don’t have to constantly be worrying about what the other person is really thinking. What are they saying behind my back? What is their real motive? It is so freeing to operate with a high level of loyalty. I encourage you to fight for this kind of loyalty among your team. As you add members to your staff, try to see if they have a track record of loyalty. See how they talk about their former employers. Remember that if they talk about them, they will eventually talk about you.

As I finished talking to Jeremy about the type of team members he was looking for, he said to me, “This is quite a list. Is it even possible to find this type of people?”

I laughed and said, “Yeah, I know it seems pretty difficult to find these kinds of leaders, but I do think it’s important to have a list. You have to know what you want from a leader. Remember the list Paul gave in 1 Timothy 3? He spoke about a leader having a good reputation in and outside the church, someone who enjoys people, who is gentle, someone who doesn’t create quarrels and arguments. Paul’s list isn’t much different from the one you just wrote down. Now, Jeremy, I think it’s important to keep in mind that they may not get an A in all areas, but they do need to be at least average or above in all areas. If you find someone who fails in one of these areas, you may be asking for trouble. The main thing I want to get across to you is how important it is to have the right team in the right seats. Answering question number five is important. You will not go further than your team. The greater the dream, the greater the team. Always remember, Jeremy, that as a leader you are operating in one of two circles, the circle of behavior or the circle of strategy. Most leaders spend more time in the behavior circle, dealing with bad attitudes, unhealthy leaders, or low productivity among their team. You want to have the type of team that allows you to spend more time in the strategy circle and less time in the behavior circle. Does that make sense?”

Jeremy immediately responded, “Yes, it totally makes sense. I have got to do a better job putting the right people on the team. I can’t put people on the team just because they are doers. I need leaders. I’ve made that mistake before and it didn’t work. I remember when I first started as the pastor here, I hired one of the volunteers who had been serving here for years. He was a great guy and everybody loved him. He was one of the hardest-working volunteers at the church, but he wasn’t a leader. He didn’t recruit, build up leaders, or develop teams. He didn’t know how to handle certain challenges, and when he faced those challenges, it caused him to become a bit more negative than I had seen in him before. I hired a doer and not a leader, and I put him in a position where he wasn’t able to thrive. I learned the hard way that I need leaders who are healthy and productive. Leaders who know how to raise up other leaders. I know now that our church will never go further than the team we develop.”

I quickly jumped in, “Exactly right, Jeremy, your team is crucial to the mission, and your church will never outpace the team.”

He said to me, “Question number five of the seven unavoidable questions every leader must answer is, ‘Do we have the right people in the right seats moving in the right direction?’ We talked about the right people in the right seats but what about moving in the right direction?”

I looked at the time on my phone and I said, “It’s almost time for us to meet with the team. Let’s head over to the church and we can dive in to the last portion about moving in the right direction. This is something they all need to hear.”

We grabbed our things, left the café, and headed toward the church. After we arrived we went immediately into the conference room that we had been meeting in for the other strategy sessions. The team began to slowly trickle in and eventually we had everyone at the table. As we sat there I opened us up in prayer and then dove in to the subject at hand. I told them the same thing I had shared with Jeremy at the café, that we had made some incredible progress. We had been able to clearly identify the mission of the church. We developed a strategy that was simple and easy to understand and, most important, helped us fulfill the mission God has for the church. We had created clear values to serve as guidelines for the staff, leadership, and overall ministry. Then, of course, we created the metrics. We developed a way to truly evaluate the effectiveness of the church and its ministries.

I could see that they were all in full agreement. They were feeling confident about the future and about what God had called them to do and be. I pointed them to the whiteboard where the seven unavoidable questions every leader must answer were written and read number five out loud. They all knew that I had met with Jeremy beforehand, so I told them what we had discussed and that I wanted to meet with the entire team for a few moments to talk about the last part of that question: “moving in the right direction.” I emphasized to them how important this was to the process—that if we were truly going to move toward the mission of this church and relentlessly drive the strategy, then we were going to need everyone on the team moving in the right direction. We could not be concerned simply about one department. A win is not simply because your children’s ministry is doing well or your youth group is growing. There must be a collaborative effort to shift this church to be mission driven and not program driven. To operate a clear and successful strategy was going to take everyone’s heart, passion, and effort. It was going to take a change of language and behavior. That is what it means to be “moving in the right direction.”

I took some time to share with the team the same profile of the ideal team member that I shared with Jeremy. I wrote the qualities on the board one by one as I explained what each of them meant and how they affect the team when they are not present. We already read them in this chapter, but let me state them again for a quick review:

After writing the ten qualities of a great team member, I took some time to challenge them. I told them to look at the board, and I asked: “Which quality do you possess? Which quality do you not possess? Where do you need to grow? What do you need to change?” I could see in their eyes that they were truly contemplating the questions. I think they were realizing that maybe there were some areas where they needed to grow—that if the mission and strategy were going to come to life at the church, then those leading it must step up their game. One of them even remarked, “Wow, I think I’ve got some work to do.” The rest of the team sort of laughed in an agreeing way as they all realized what areas they needed to change. I emphasized to them that if we were truly going to move forward and create a church that experiences continual and sustainable growth, then these qualities have to show up in us as a team.

This is what I have learned over the years: as a pastor goes to work to develop a clear mission and strategy and strives to have a healthy and productive team, it inevitably presents a challenge for some of the team members. Unfortunately, often the organization begins to outgrow certain team members. The other team members are growing, the church is growing, and the pace is strong, but a certain team member remains the same. They don’t personally develop as a leader and eventually they get left behind. This creates a huge challenge and a difficult circumstance to navigate. That’s why I always tell staff members when we are working with a church, “Be careful that the church doesn’t outgrow you. Start growing, start reading, seek out mentors. Take advantage of the coaches we are providing for you. This team and church will grow, but please understand . . . I don’t want you to get left behind.”

I have also learned that healthy churches cause unhealthy leaders to leave. But the opposite is true as well; unhealthy churches cause healthy leaders to leave. If you are an unhealthy staff member and you don’t start working toward health, eventually there will be a conflict and either you will step away or you will be asked to step away. But pastors, please understand, if you don’t fight for a healthy environment, then you will not be able to retain healthy leaders. If you remain unhealthy as a staff, you will only attract dysfunctional leaders who will keep you in the behavior circle and exhaust you by making you expend sideways energy.

I shared these points with the team, the same way I had shared them with Jeremy at the café. In the other strategy sessions we had, we spent several hours developing systems, creating processes, debating wording, and ultimately driving to clarity. But this session was different. This session was about a heart check. What kind of leader am I? What do I need to change? What kind of leaders do we need in the future to keep us moving forward?

I would challenge you in the same way that we have challenged every church we have worked with over the years.

To the staff/leaders: Don’t let the organization outgrow you. Keep learning, keep growing, and stay hungry. Make sure that your heart and spirit are in alignment with the church you serve. Your job isn’t simply to grow your department; you are there to fulfill the mission of the church, support the ministry, fight for loyalty and health, and add value in everything you do and say.

To the pastor: Always remember that you don’t attract what you want, you attract what you are. If you want loyalty, be loyal. If you want clarity, be clear. If you want support, give support. If you want health, be healthy. Fight for it in your own life, and accept nothing less in the lives of your leaders. Your church’s ability to maintain continual and sustainable growth depends on it.

May it be said of your team: we are the right people in the right seats moving in the right direction.