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FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
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Date of transcription 5/11/95
On 4/13/95, SA's Francis J. Pellegrino and Thomas G. Donlon, conducted an interview of ABDUL HAKIM ALI, AKA ABDUL HAKIM ALI HASHEM MURAD. MURAD was interviewed as he was being transported from Manila, Philippines to New York as a result of a sealed indictment issued by the United Stated Federal District Court for the Southern District of New York. The indictment of MURAD charged him with Title 18 USC Section 32 Conspiracy to Destroy U.S. Civil Aircraft. MURAD was advised of the identities of the interviewing agents and the purpose of the interview. MURAD was read his rights in English and stated that he understood. MURAD then read his advise of rights in both English and Arabic and again stated that he understood. MURAD then signed the waivers of his rights, witnessed by the interviewing agents. MURAD agreed to speak to the interviewing agents and provided the following information in English.
MURAD advised that he arrived in Manila, Philippines on December 26, 1994, aboard Singapore Airlines which originated in Dubai, U.A.E., with a stopover in Singapore before arriving in Manila, MURAD advised that he had received a call in Dubai from RAMZI YOUSEF (AKA ABDUL BASIT MAHMOUD ABDUL KARIM) in the beginning of December, 1994. MURAD stated that he was living with his uncle, SULIMAN AHMED, in Qassais, a small community in Dubai. Since his uncle does not have a telephone at his residence, the call came from RAMZI into his neighbors phone, JUMA MURAD (no relation). MURAD stated that RAMZI requested his presence in the Philippines without fully elaborating on the purpose, however, MURAD believed that he would be travelling to the Philippines to participate in a bombing. MURAD advised that RAMZI sent him $1,200 to buy the airline ticket.
MURAD stated that he knew that RAMZI was responsible for the World Trade Center bombing and that he was wanted by the U.S. authorities. MURAD stated that he had been with RAMZI during August, 1994, at which time RAMZI was staying at the Embassy Hotel in Karachi. While in Karachi, MURAD advised that RAMZI explained to him that he wanted to “blow up” unnamed American airliners by placing explosives aboard the aircraft. MURAD explained that RAMZI took him to Lahore in September or October, 1994 in order to provide MURAD with training in the use of explosives and chemicals. MURAD stated that he maintained a notebook on the formulas and instructions provided to him by RAMZI. After departing Lahore, he travelled to Karachi and then on to Quetta, Pakistan. RAMZI proceeded directly to Quetta. When MURAD arrived in Quetta he stayed at RAMZI's brother's house, ABDUL MONEEM. MURAD stated that RAMZI was already in Quetta when he arrived.
Investigation on 4/12-13/95 at Aircraft in Flight File
SA FRANCIS J. PELLEGRINO, FBI by
SA THOMAS G. DONLON, FBI Date diclared 4/19/95
This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency
MURAD stated that he left Quetta after about two weeks and travelled to Layari, Karachi, in late October or early November, 1994, where he stayed with another of RAMZI's brothers, ABDUL KARIM MAHMOUD ABDUL KARIM. After leaving Karachi, MURAD stated that he returned to Dubai where he received a telephone call from RAMZI during the early part of December, 1994, asking him to go to the Philippines. After arriving in the Philippines, RAMZI instructed MURAD to register at the Las Palmas Hotel in Manila utilizing the alias SAEED AHMED (ph), without displaying his passport which reflected his true identity.
MURAD advised that when he arrived in Manila at about 3:45 pm, he took a taxi to the Las Palmas Hotel. When he arrived at the hotel he checked in as SAEED AHMEN. MURAD stated that RAMZI, clean shaven, was in the lobby of the hotel at this time. MURAD advised that he ignored RAMZI while he registered but they both then proceeded to his room. MURAD stated that when RAMZI previously contacted him in Dubai, he asked MURAD to bring some hair dye. MURAD stated that he brought five or six different Loreal hair colorings. MURAD stated that as soon as they settled in the in the hotel, he shaved his beard and RAMZI assisted him in coloring his hair. MURAD advised that he and RAMZI were trying to disguise their Arabic features while appearing more European in order to receive less attention. MURAD stated that they left the hotel around 5:00 pm and returned about 8:00 pm after dining alone at a local restaurant. That night, RAMZI stayed at the hotel with MURAD and they engaged in only social conversation.
On the following day 12/27, MURAD stated that they woke up approximately 1:00 pm and went to the SM Store at the Shangra La Mall in Edsa, to purchaser contact lenses for MURAD and Casio watches to make timers for explosives. MURAD advised that they did not buy any watches at this time. At about 5:00 pm, MURAD advised that RAMZI received a call on his cellular telephone from an individual identified by RAMZI, as KHALID, from Qatar, who was visiting the Phi lippines. MURAD advised that RAMZI was told that KHALID had something for him from Qatar, and that KHALID had arrived in the Philippines a few days earlier. MURAD advised that he and YOUSEF went to KHALID's apartment in Ermita, but MURAD could not remember the address, but believed it was on Mabini Street. MURAD stated that it was his opinion that this was the first occasion that RAMZI met KHALID based on the way they introduced themselves. MURAD explained that KHALID gave RAMZI a handbag that contained chocolate, potato chips, and non-alcoholic beer. KHALID also gave RAMZI a letter from someone named SALEH. MURAD stated that KHALID said that he came from Qatar to open up an employment business to locate Filipinos to work in Qatar. MURAD said that he and RAMZI stayed about ten minutes and MURAD never had contact with KHALID again. MURAD described KHALID as approximately, 5′11″, thin build, 26 or 27 years old with a beard and brown hair. MURAD advised that RAMZI stayed with him at the Las Palmas on the evening of 12/27. Murad stated that he and RAMZI, after leaving KHALID, spoke of Islam, Islamic wars, the current position of Arab countries, they purchased Time magazine, walked on the beach, and watched CNN before going to sleep.
On 12/28, MURAD advised that he checked out of the Las Palmas Hotel at about 2:00 pm and paid for his stay. He and RAMZI then went to RAMZI's residence, the Dona Josefa Apartments, 711 Qirino Ave Malate Manila, apartment 603. MURAD advised that later that same day, ABDUL MAJID came by at about 6:00 pm and stayed for only about one hour. MURAD advised that MAJID previously lived with RAMZI in apartment 603 until 12/27, at which time he moved out in order to allow MURAD to move in. MURAD stated that it was obvious that MAJID knew what was in the apartment and RAMZI explained that MURAD always wore gloves in the apartment since he was frightened of all the chemicals. MURAD described MAJID as about 165 centimeters, brown complexion, clean shaven, medium build, black hair, and originated from Saudi Arabia. MURAD advised that he knew MAJID from Karachi and was surprised to see him in Manila. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him he was there for diving lessons. MURAD advised that MAJID lived in Karachi in a section called Sharafabad where he visited MAJID, who is in the electronics business, with RAMZI, in April of 1993. MURAD also advised that MAJID had visited RAMZI when RAMZI was in the Jinnah Hospital in Karachi in August of 1993. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him that ABDUL MAJID is just an alias. MURAD also advised that MAJID had a United States visa and was planning to travel to the U.S. sometime in the near future. MURAD stated that he thought that MAJID might go to the Richmore Flying School in Albany, New York, because MAJID seemed interested in obtaining his pilots license and MURAD suggested the Richmore Flying School.
MURAD advised that in either July or August, 1993, he was living in apartment 402 at the Lighthouse Naddi Tower in Karachi, Pakistan. The apartment was owned by HAJI YOUSEF, a friend of his uncle. MURAD advised that RAMZI stayed with him (MURAD) for about one week. While in the apartment, RAMZI was cleaning lead azide out of a container when it exploded, causing serious injuries to RAMZI, including blindness in his right eye. MURAD stated that RAMZI spent a long period of time in the hospital and then went to his parents house in Iran to continue to recuperate. MURAD described RAMZI as being very careless which at times caused problems, including the fire at the Dona Josefa apartment which resulted in MURAD's arrest.
MURAD advised that when he moved into apartment 603, he observed chemicals, cotton, timers, and electronic materials. MURAD advised that he moved into the apartment with RAMZI to construct bombs. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him at the Las Palmas Hotel upon his arrival that RAMZI wanted MURAD to place bombs on some unnamed American airlines. MURAD advised that RAMZI asked MURAD to assist in determining the proper timing of the explosive devices because of his aviation background.
MURAD advised that he believed it would be more advantageous to set the timer 4 days ahead to remove suspicion, since the authorities would focus on those travelling on the flight the day of the explosion. MURAD stated that he was going utilize two carry-on bags. In one bag would be two bottles of nitroglycerine that were contained in contact lens cleaning solution bottles, one being 320 milliliters, the other 350 milliliters. In the second bag, MURAD stated he would put the cotton, batteries, watches and wires, while carrying the detonators in his shoe. MURAD stated that he and RAMZI discussed placing detonators in a Parker Pen, in the future, to avoid airport security. MURAD stated he was going to depart the Philippines on 1/14/95 and proceed to Singapore. That night he would get on UA flight 2, which flies from Singapore to Hong Kong and the on to Los Angeles. MURAD advised that he would place the bomb on flight 2 on the Singapore to Hong Kong leg. MURAD said that he would depart the aircraft in Hong Kong, wait until the next morning, about 8 hours, and then get on United Airlines flight 1, on the Hong Kong to Singapore leg. MURAD advised that he would plant the bomb and get off the flight in Singapore. MURAD stated that he would set the timers to have the bombs explode in four days. MURAD advised that it was going to cost about $4,000 U.S. dollars to purchase the airline tickets for the fights he was going to bomb. MURAD stated that he believed that AMIN LNU, from Yemen, was going to send RAMZI the money. MURAD stated that RAMZI always had four or five thousand pesos with him and MURAD believes that the money was coming from AMIN. MURAD said that AMIN had contacted RAMZI while they were in the Philippines. MURAD stated that he was unaware of any bank accounts that RAMZI had, but suggested that the money may have gone into MAJID's account at the Hong Kong bank.
MURAD advised that he was unaware of any other airliners that were currently being targeted. MURAD said that he does not know what Bojinka means, and never heard of Bojinka until the Philippine police informed him of the term. MURAD advised that the CASIO watches that he and RAMZI purchased could be programmed for up to one year.
MURAD advised that the explosive devices were comprised of two bottles of explosive material on which he would place two timers, two detonators, and two watches on each bottle. One of the watches would be connected to one nine volt battery, while the other watch would be connected to two nine volt batteries. MURAD advised that he and RAMZI purchased five Casio watches, one was to be used for practice, the other four to construct timers for explosives. MURAD advised that after his baggage passed through the x-ray machines at the airport, he would proceed into the bathroom located in the waiting area in order to mix the cotton with the nitroglycerine. The mixing was done after passing through security because the x-ray machine would not detect the nitroglycerine and cotton separately, however if the components were mixed before passing through security, the density would change and be detected. While in the bathroom on the plane, MURAD advised that he would assemble the wires, batteries and explosive to the watch whose timer was already set to explode over water. MURAD would then place the bomb underneath a detachable plastic piece adjacent to the sink. The bathroom is near the cockpit and MURAD advised that he and RAMZI were certain that the hull of the plane would rupture and cause chaos in the cockpit. MURAD advised that he and RAMZI were sure that the explosion would cause the destruction of the plane and the death of everyone on board the aircraft.
MURAD stated that he was going to pack Bibles in his travel bag in order to draw attention away from the bags other contents, as security personnel would be intrigued by a person with a Muslim name carrying a Bible. MURAD also stated that he was going to secrete the detonators in his shoes while wearing a Christian medal around his neck, and if the metal detector alarm signaled as he passed through he would blame it on his jewelry.
MURAD advised that MAJID returned to apartment 603 on the 29th of December, and he, RAMZI and MAJID went to a travel agent on Adriatico Street where RAMZI and MAJID made reservations to go diving at Batangas beach. MURAD advised that MAJID may have made the reservation in his real name. MURAD said that MAJID gave MURAD a piece of paper from the booking agent and MAJID asked MURAD to return the following day to collect 2000 pesos from the agent. MURAD advised that he placed the paper in his pocket without reading the name. When they returned to the apartment, MAJID asked for the paper to be returned and MURAD complied. MURAD stated that RAMZI informed him that the reason MAJID wanted the paper returned was that MAJID realized he made the reservation in his real name and did not want MURAD to know his true identity.
After making the diving reservations, MURAD advised that he and RAMZI went to a chemical company whose name he could not recall, and ordered some chemicals. On the following day, the 30th of December, RAMZI and MURAD picked up the chemicals they purchased the day before. MURAD advised that they purchased one small carton that contained one two and a half liter bottle of sulfuric acid, and two big cartons which contained four bottles each, two of nitric acid and two of sulfuric acid. MURAD stated that RAMZI paid four or five thousand pesos, in cash, for the chemicals.
MURAD advised that ABDUL MAJID returned to the Dona Josefa apartments at about midnight on 12/29/94. MURAD stated that MAJID wanted someone to accompany him to check his account balance at the Hong Kong bank in Makati. MURAD said that he went with MAJID, who told him, after checking the account, that the money MAJID was expecting had not arrived yet. MURAD advised that he is unaware of the origin of the money, nor does he know the amount MAJID expected. After leaving the bank, MURAD advised that he returned to the Dona Josefa apartment and MAJID went home.
MURAD advised that on either the 28th or 29th of December, he and RAMZI purchased the CASIO watches that were needed for the timers at the Shangra La Mega Mall in Edsa in a store whose name he could not recall. MURAD stated that RAMZI paid for the watches. MURAD stated that on 12/30/94, RAMZI instructed him how to modify the Casio watches into timers for the explosives. MURAD advised that on that afternoon he made two of the timers, which took about two hours each to construct.
MURAD stated that MAJID was present at the apartment on December 30th when he and RAMZI returned from picking up the chemicals they ordered the day before. MURAD advised that MAJID stayed with them that evening. MURAD stated that they never discussed their bombing plans in the presence of MAJID, but MURAD believed that MAJID must have known something was planned since MAJID was aware of the chemicals and the electronic components in the apartment. MURAD stated that MAJID stayed that night at the apartment because MAJID and RAMZI were going diving and were leaving early in the morning on 12/31/94. After MAJID and RAMZI departed on 12/31, MURAD stated that he did some shopping, ate a late lunch and in the evening he constructed two additional timers. MURAD advised that RAMZI returned to the Dona Josefa apartment at about 1:00 pm on 1/1/95, advising him that MAJID had stayed behind to continue diving.
MURAD advised that on 1/2/95 he and RAMZI purchased wires, clips and batteries at the SM Store, and began to put some of the electronic components of the explosives together. MURAD advised that he and RAMZI did not meet anyone the week leading up to “black Friday”, 1/6/95, the day he was arrested. MURAD said that the last time he saw MAJID was on 12/31/94, and believed that MAJID was still diving at the time of his arrest.
The week before he was arrested, MURAD advised that he and RAMZI purchased some heaters (stove top burners), “big timers”, batteries, wires, Bibles, and Catholic jewelry. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him that he was going to take one burner and timer to visit the ABU SAYYAF group in the south of the Philippines, to instruct them on how to mix chemicals, and use timing devices and watches for explosives. MURAD said that RAMZI was going to bring one timer and burner to Algeria, Egypt, and France, to teach Muslims in those areas how to construct bombs. MURAD stated that RAMZI had visited the ABU SAYYAF group once before in Mindaneo during the early part of 1994. MURAD stated that RAMZI told him that the ABU SAYYAF group would be difficult to instruct in explosives since their main interest is in the use of firearms.
MURAD advised that he and RAMZI woke up about noon on Friday, 1/6/95, went out for lunch, and did some shopping at the Harrison Plaza Mall. MURAD stated that they did not meet anyone that day. MURAD advised that late in the evening of 1/6/95, RAMZI was burning some chemicals that were no longer needed. MURAD said that RAMZI became careless, and the burning began to produce more smoke than he expected. The smoke was very dense so they opened the front door and windows to allow the smoke out of the apartment while he and RAMZI exited the apartment to wait for the smoke to dissipate. MURAD said that the smoke caused some neighbors to contact the fire department because they believed there was a fire in the apartment. MURAD stated that he escorted the fire department to the apartment to show them that there was no fire. After observing the inside of the apartment the fire department was satisfied that there was no current danger and departed. MURAD advised that RAMZI had departed the area when the fire department arrived. Subsequent to the departure of the fire department, the police responded to the apartment. MURAD advised that he let the police into the apartment and assured them that there was no problem. The officer informed MURAD that he wanted MURAD to come down to the police station for questioning. MURAD said that he informed the officer that this was his friend's apartment and that he would try and contact his friend. The officer told MURAD to come to the station that night after he found his friend.
MURAD advised that he want back to the apartment and called RAMZI on RAMZI's cellular telephone. RAMZI told him that he was at the 7-11 store on Mabini street. MURAD advised that he went to the 7-11 store were he met RAMZI and OSAMA ASMURAI, who MURAD claims he had not seen in Manila previously. The three then proceeded to a Kareoke bar were MURAD explained to RAMZI that the police wanted MURAD to go to the station for questioning. MURAD stated that RAMZI told MURAD to give him his passports and to go back to the apartment and retrieve the computer. MURAD gave RAMZI his passports and when he returned to the Dona Josefa apartments he was apprehended by the police in the lobby. MURAD stated that he tried to escape but fell down on the sidewalk just outside the apartment complex. MURAD stated that he was taken to the police station for about 30 minutes, then was taken back to apartment 603. MURAD advised that the police discovered in the apartment, the computer, the chemicals, electronic components, one completed piep bomb and three pipes that were not yet armed. MURAD was then taken back to the police station by the police.
MURAD advised that after the bombs exploded on the airlines, credit would be given to the LIBERATION ARMY. MURAD advised that the LIBERATION ARMY consisted of only him and RAMZI. MURAD said that RAMZI made up the name in order to make people believe that the LIBERATION ARMY was a large group of committed terrorists.
MURAD advised that RAMZI told him in August of 1992 that he (RAMZI) would be travelling to the United States to commit a bombing. MURAD advised that when the bomb exploded at the World Trade Center he was certain that RAMZI was the person responsible. MURAD advised that he and RAMZI would use the code “All68 of the Liberation Army” when claiming responsibility for terrorist acts. MURAD stated that the “A” was for ABDUL, the true first name of both MURAD and RAMZI, the first “1” (one) represented the day he (MURAD) was born 4/1/68, the second “1” (one) was arbitrary, and the “68” is the year that both he and RAMZI were born. MURAD advised that when the fire bomb exploded in the New York City subway in December of 1994, RAMZI called him and instructed him to telephone various Embassies claiming that the LIBERATION ARMY All68 was responsible. MURAD claimed that he contacted the Omani Embassy in Islamabad, the American Embassy in Islamabad, and the American Consulate in Karachi.
MURAD advised that RAMZI told him upon his arrival to the Philippines on December 26, 1994, that he had placed a bomb earlier that month on the Philippines Airlines flight that travels from Manila to Tokyo's Narita Airport, with a stopover in Cebu, Philippines. MURAD stated that RAMZI told him that he only used a small quantity of explosives as he was testing the timers and the explosive to insure that it operated as he expected. MURAD advised that RAMZI would remove the contents of a pill capsule and replace it with what MURAD believed to be the explosive “acetone broxide”. When purchasing tickets for the flight, RAMZI utilized an unknown Italian name which he obtained from the Atlas software stored on his computer. MURAD claims that RAMZI called him to go to the Philippines after the Philippine Airline explosion.
MURAD advised that after the World Trade Center bombing RAMZI travelled to Karachi, Pakistan, were they met on numerous occasions. MURAD stated that RAMZI told him of his involvement in the World Trade Center explosion. MURAD said that he never met AHMED AJAJ and only knows that he entered the United States with RAMZI and was arrested. MURAD stated that RAMZI “used” the other individuals that were involved in the Trade Center bombing. MURAD stated that RAMZI told him that he resided with MOHAMMAD SALAMEH in New Jersey and he, SALAMEH, ABDUL RAHMAN YASIN, and a Jordanian were involved the day of the explosion. MURAD said that he was unsure of the Jordanian's name but believed it might be something like ISAM, and believes that he has green eyes and light hair.
MURAD was shown photos of various individuals to determine whether he could make identifications. MURAD identified photo number one as an individual by the name of HABIBA, a Balouchi, from Pakistan, who he never met in the Philippines. MURAD said that the only time he met HABIBA was at RAMZI's brother's house, ABDUL MONEEM, in Quetta, in either September or October of 1994. MURAD said that RAMZI never spoke about HABIBA.
Photo number two was identified by MURAD as OSAMA ASURMAI. MURAD said that the Philippine police told him that the man's name was WALI KHAN AMIN SHAH, but MURAD stated that he never knew him by that name. MURAD advised that OSAMA a was a Saudi who allegedly lived in Medina, Saudi Arabia. MURAD advised that he believes that OSAMA has a brother by the name SAKER. MURAD stated that the first time that he met OSAMA was in ABDUL MAJID's apartment in Karachi, Pakistan in August of 1994. MURAD advised that the next time he encountered OSAMA was the day he was arrested, 1/7/95, at the 7-11 store in Manila, in the company of RAMZI. MURAD said that OSAMA was angry at the Philippine government because they arrested his friend and turned him over to United States authorities. MURAD said that he believed that OSAMA arrived from Islamabad on 1/6/95.
MURAD was shown photo number three and identified the individual as ABDUL MONEEM, the brother of RAMZI, who lives in Quetta, Pakistan, MURAD advised that he never saw MONEEM in the Philippines, MURAD described Moneem as approximately 31 years old, married, with 3 or 4 children, and is an Arabic teacher in Quetta.
MURAD identified photo number four as RAMZI's brother in law ABDUL SAMAD, who is married to one of RAMZI's sisters, and is currently living in IRAN.
MURAD advised that RAMZI planned to transport some of the chemicals and cotton back to Karachi after they completed their bombing of the U.S. airlines. MURAD said that RAMZI was going to make additional nitrocellulose to commit further acts in the name of his religion. MURAD also advised that the pipe bombs discovered in the apartment at the Dona Josefa were going to be used in an attempt to take the life of Pope John Paul. MURAD advised that RAMZI was going to plant the bombs on the Pope's travel route in Manila, while using a remote control device to initiate the explosives. MURAD stated that he was opposed to any attempt on the life of Pope John Paul because Islamic law forbids the killing of a holy man. MURAD claims that RAMZI was uncertain as to whether the pipe bombs would kill Pope John Paul, but was certain that it would cause enough commotion to be newsworthy. RAMZI was going to credit the attempt on the life of Pope John Paul to the ABU SAYYAF group in an attempt to enhance their stature.
MURAD advised that he was born on 4/1/68 in Kuwait, and his full name is ABDUL HAKIM ALI HASHIM MURAD. MURAD said that his parents still live in Sabahiya, Kuwait. MURAD said that his parents are both Balouchi, from Pakistan, although his mother has OMANI citizenship. MURAD's family and RAMZI's family were acquaintances since both families are Balouchi, and lived in Kuwait at the same time. MURAD stated that he attended a Pakistani school when he was very young and then went to the Aumal-Kura Abu Halifa elementary school in the Ahmadi district of Kuwait. MURAD advised that he then enrolled at the Khalifa Talal Al-Jiry school were he graduated but never attended any college or university.
MURAD advised that he first met RAMZI in a Mosque in Fahaheel city in Kuwait in either 1983 or 1984. MURAD advised that he did not stay in frequent contact with RAMZI while RAMZI attended school in the United Kingdom. MURAD stated that RAMZI is married with two daughters, and believes that they reside in the Iranian section of Baluchistan. MURAD advised that RAMZI had a girlfriend in the Philippines who sold perfume at the Harrison Plaze Mall.
MURAD advised that when the Philippine National Police questioned him they tape recorded the interviews. MURAD advised that he does not know MOHAMMAD JAMAL KHALIFA and heard the name for the first time when it was mentioned to him by the Philippine Police. MURAD advised that although he never met OSAMA BEN LADIN he is familiar with the name. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him that he met the blind Sheik, OMAR ABDEL RAHMAN, on one occasion at a Mosque in Jersey City, New Jersey. MURAD stated that he was told by RAMZI that neither Sheik RAHMAN nor SIDDING ALI had any |involvement with the World Trade Center bombing. MURAD advised that he did not believe that RAMZI was associated with any particular group. MURAD advised that he does not know TARIQ RANA but had heard the name on one occasion from either RAMZI or the Philippine National Police. MURAD also advised that he does not know anyone by the name of SALEM ALI or SHEIK MOHAMMAD.
MURAD advised that RAMZI has a friend, who he (MURAD) also knows, by the name of ABDUL SHAKOOR, who was also born in Kuwait, MURAD stated that RAMZI met SHAKOOR in Afghanistan in either 1991 or 1992, while RAMZI was taking six months of explosive training. MURAD stated that SHAKOOR travelled to Afghanistan and attended approximately two weeks of training before departing. MURAD stated that SHAKOOR was a very violent individual and believed in killing indiscriminately on behalf of his religion, even if it resulted in the deaths of Muslims. MURAD stated that RAMZI would never kill a brother Muslim, and their different views on fighting for their cause resulted in a strained relationship.
As for any future terrorist plans, MURAD advised that he and RAMZI discussed the possibility of bombing a nuclear facility in the United States. They also discussed additional attacks on American airline carriers such as United and Northwest Airlines. MURAD stated that RAMZI wanted to bomb El-Al Airlines but believed that security would be too difficult to penetrate. The underlying reason for these attacks would be to make the people of the U.S., and their government, “suffer” for their support of Israel. MURAD stated that America should remain neutral regarding the problems of the Middle East. MURAD advised that RAMZI wanted to return to the United States in the future to bomb the World Trade Center a second time.
MURAD gave the following information regarding his family;
Mother: |
AMINA AHMAD |
|
Father: |
ALI HASHIM |
Working in Kuwait Petroleum Company. Parents live in Sabahiya B/1 St. 17 HN 828 Kuwait tel: 3615585. |
Sisters: |
MAJIDA |
Single, living in Kuwait, 28 years old. |
FARIDA |
Married living in Ajman City, U.A.E, 23 years old. | |
MANAL |
Living in Kuwait, 10 years old. | |
Brothers: |
AHMAD |
Deceased. |
ANWAR |
Single, living in U.A.E, 25 years old. ANWAR is working in the Customs office in Abu Dhabi, U.A.E. | |
KHALID |
Single living in the United States 22 years old. MURAD advised that KHALID was studying in Kentucky but is currently residing with his brother's brother-in-law in D.C., whose name is ABDUL KHALIQ who is studying computer engineering at Georgetown University. | |
MOHAMMAD |
Living in Kuwait, 8 years old. | |
ADEL |
Living in Kuwait, 3 years old. |
MURAD advised that he has a good friend, KHALID HASSAN, a Palestinian, who lives and studies dentistry in Cebu, Philippines. MURAD advised that HASSAN has no connections with RAMZI and HASSAN was unaware of MURAD presence in the Philippines.
At this time the aircraft landed in Alaska for refueling.
MURAD advised that on 11/19/91 he left DUBAI and travelled to London, England for a week of sightseeing. MURAD stated that prior to going to England, he was in Dubai obtaining his private pilots license at the Emirates Flying School. MURAD advised that his friend, NASIR ALI MUBAREK, who also attended the Emirates Flying School, had arrived in London a couple of days prior to MURAD. MURAD stated that he traveled on his Pakistani passport in which he obtained a single entry, 6 month visa for the United Kingdom at the U.K. Consulate in Dubai. MURAD stated that they stayed in Oxford with a woman, whose name he does not recall, who MUBAREK had met on a previous trip to England. MURAD said that MUBAREK has relatives in Birmingham, England, and further advised that MUBAREK does not know RAMZI.
After approximately one week, they departed London and proceeded to the United States. MURAD said that MUBAREK flew to San Antonio, Texas while he travelled first to Washington, D.C., on TWA. MURAD stated that he stayed with his brothers brother-in-law, ABDUL KHALIQ, for a few days then proceeded to San Antonio, also on TWA. MURAD advised that he and MUBAREK were scheduled, per their immigration I-20s, to attend school at the Alpha Tango Flying School at Berne Stages, Texas. MURAD advised that he obtained a U.S. visa in Dubai that was valid for one or two years. MURAD advised that his father financed his airfare, tuition for the flying school, and living expenses while staying in the Unites States.
MURAD advised that he obtained his initial Pakistani passport in 1987 from the Pakistani Embassy in Kuwait. MURAD stated that since the pages in the passport were exhausted, he obtained another Pakistani passport at the Consulate in Dubai. When this passport became full with visa's and stamps, he obtained a third passport in 1994 from the Consulate in Dubai. Since none of the passports expired, MURAD advised that he travelled with all three. MURAD stated that he has no additional passports in other names or from other countries.
MURAD advised that he and MUBAREK attended the Alpha Tango School because their chief instructor at the Emirates Flying School, RIAZ AHMED, in Dubai, had also attended Alpha Tango. MURAD advised that many Pakistani's were enrolled at the Alpha Tango School. One of the instructors at Alpha Tango was a Sudanese by the name of BAHA ELDIN. MURAD stated that the chief pilot, HAMED AFZL, arranged for an apartment for MURAD and MUBAREK in San Antonio. MURAD stated that they did not visit any Mosque's in San Antonio and they departed after approximately two weeks because they were unhappy with the facilities at Alpha Tango.
MURAD advised that he and MUBAREK purchased a Hyundai automobile in San Antonio, Texas, and traveled to the Richmore Flying School, located near Albany, New York. MURAD stated that they drove through New York City and stopped only to purchase a map, and then continued on to the Richmore School. MURAD estimates that it took them three days to drive from San Antonio, Texas, to Albany, New York. MURAD stated that a RICHARD LNU was in charge at the Richmore Flying School which they only attended for approximately two months.
MURAD advised that he departed Richmore to return to San Antonio's Alpha Tango School because the weather in Albany was much too cold. MURAD advised that he attended the Richmore school in January and February of 1992, after which time he departed on TWA, to San Antonio, with MUBAREK remaining at the Richmore School. MURAD said that he attended the Alpha Tango School for the months of March and April, 1992, and stayed with two Pakistani's, RAGIB LNU and NASER LNU, and one Saudi, HASSAN MUBAREK (no relation to NASER). After about two months at the Alpha Tango School he returned to Richmore, first stopping in Washington D.C. to visit with ABDUL KHALIQ for a few days. MURAD advised that MUBAREK met him in Washington D.C., and they proceeded to the Richmore School.
MURAD stated that they attended the Richmore School for about two weeks and departed for North Carolina to attend the Coastal Aviation School in Newburgh, N.C., where they resided. MURAD said that they arrived in North Carolina the end of May or beginning of June, 1992. MURAD advised that MUBAREK obtained his license prior to MURAD, then returned to the Richmore School, while MURAD received his certification on 6/6/92. After MURAD obtained his license MUBAREK returned to North Carolina in order to accompany MURAD to the Richmore School. Prior to returning to the Richmore School, MURAD and MUBAREK visited New York City for one evening. Upon arriving at the Richmore School they met a mutual friend of theirs, ABDULLAH YOUSEF, who they knew from the Emirates School in the U.A.E. After about a week in Richmore, all three proceeded by automobile to California.
In June, 1992, all three attended the California Aeronautics School in Red Bluff, California, which is located three hours north of San Francisco. Both MURAD and MUBAREK were attempting to obtain an instructor rating at the California Aeronautics School. MURAD said that he paid $1,300 to attend the school, but he departed after two weeks without completing the course. While at Red Bluff, MURAD stayed with an Italian individual known only as MAX, and a Vietnamese individual with American citizenship who MURAD only knew as HEYO (ph). MURAD advised that he alone returned to Dubai after leaving California.
MURAD stated that before reaching Dubai he stayed with an aunt, GUL BIBY, and uncle, SAADI MOHAMMAD for three days in Bahrain. MURAD advised that he then returned to Dubai and resided with his uncle for two months. MURAD stated that he frequently traveled throughout the Gulf States in an attempt to find employment as a pilot. MURAD advised that he obtained a U.S. visa in Muscat, Oman in November of 1992, that was valid until February of 1993. MURAD advised that he wanted to return to California to complete his instructor qualifications since he already paid for the course. MURAD stated that he decided not to return to the U.S. but rather travelled to Karachi in an attempt to obtain employment with Pakistani International Airlines. MURAD advised that he stayed in Karachi from November, 1992 until April, 1993.
MURAD stated that RAMZI contacted him while he was in Dubai in either July or August, 1992. MURAD advised that RAMZI stated that he obtained “chocolate training”, when MURAD explained that he did not understand, RAMZI replied “boom”. MURAD said he understood this to mean that RAMZI had obtained some training in explosives. MURAD said that RAMZI stated he was going to the United States to find employment, however he was aware RAMZI was going to the States to commit a bombing. MURAD advised that RAMZI did not say when he was planning this travel.
MURAD stated that when he was in Karachi from November 1992 to April 1993, he resided with an individual named ABDUL GHANY, who is unknown to RAMZI. MURAD advised that he obtained a flying license in Karachi from the Pakistan Civil Aviation, file number in Karachi 3815, and license number 1929.
MURAD said that he met RAMZI numerous times in Karachi in April, 1993, at which time RAMZI advised him of his participation in the World Trade Center bombing. MURAD said that RAMZI was staying at the Embassy Hotel in Karachi during this time, and RAMZI felt secure.
MURAD stated he departed Karachi in May of 1993 and travelled between Dubai and Kuwait, returning to Karachi in August, 1993, where he again met with RAMZI. RAMZI stayed for a couple of weeks at the Lighthouse Naddi Tower with MURAD, where he had an accident cleaning lead azide from a container which resulted in a serious injury. MURAD stated that RAMZI spent a part of July, and most of August, in the hospital in Karachi. MURAD said that he left Karachi in mid August to attend the Peshawar Flying School, were he resided. MURAD advised that most of the students enrolled in this school originated from the Sudan. MURAD stated that attended the Peshawar School for 22 days where he obtained his instructor rating. MURAD then returned to Karachi to apply for a pilot position at Pakistani International Airlines.
While in Karachi, MURAD resided at the home of his friend ABDUL GHANY, House Number Y5, Phase 6, Khayabanshabaz. MURAD stated that RAMZI's brother ABDUL KARIM MAHMOUD ABDUL KARIM advised him that RAMZI had returned to their parents residence in Iranshar, Iran, to continue his recuperation. MURAD said that he stayed in Karachi until November of 1993.
MURAD stated that he left Karachi at the end of November and proceeded to Dubai were he remained until May, 1994. MURAD stated that he had no contact with RAMZI during this time and believed that RAMZI was still recuperating in Iran. MURAD advised that he was attempting to convert his pilots license to qualify in Dubai, which was a complicated process. MURAD advised that he travelled to Kuwait in June, 1994, to visit with his family, after which he returned to Dubai. In August, 1994, MURAD advised that he went to Karachi and resided with ABDUL KARIM, where he remained there for 15 days.
MURAD stated that RAMZI came from Manila to Karachi in August, 1994, and stayed at the Embassy Hotel. MURAD explained that RAMZI did not always get along well with ABDUL KARIM and would usually stay at the Embassy Hotel when in Karachi. MURAD advised that RAMZI told him that he travelled around Southeast Asia, i.e. Hong Kong, Singapore, and the Philippines, to find a permanent residence because he believed the FBI was actively searching for him in Karachi. MURAD said that RAMZI concluded that the Manila area was acceptable because the cost of living is reasonable.
While in Karachi, MURAD advised that RAMZI told him of his desire to bomb unnamed American airlines. MURAD also said that RAMZI wanted to travel to Lahore, Pakistan, to train MURAD in the use of explosives, timers, and Casio watche modifications. MURAD said that RAMZI travelled to Lahore a couple of days prior and they stayed in Lahore for 18 days of training. After completing the training, MURAD returned to Karachi and Yousef travelled to Quetta to visit his brother. MURAD said that he remained in Karachi for about two weeks, then returned to Dubai where RAMZI contacted him in December 1994 requesting MURAD to travel to the Philippines. MURAD advised that when RAMZI asked him to go come to the Philippines he was fully aware that “something was planned”.
MURAD advised that RAMZI spoke to him on one occasion about attacking the U.S. Consulate in Karachi with a “rocket” that RAMZI was going to construct. MURAD explained that RAMZI drew a diagram of this rocket and advised that it would be fired from a park adjacent to a church located across the street from the Consulate. RAMZI never explained how the rocket was going to be fired or when he planned on committing the attck. MURAD said that RAMZI gave no particular reason the U.S. Consulate was the target, but conjectured that it was convenient since RAMZI spent a substantial amount of time in Karachi.
MURAD advised that he never encountered, nor does he know anything about, MIR AHMED KANSI. MURAD said that RAMZI never spoke of KANZI and he is unaware whether RAMZI ever had contact with KANSI. MURAD also claimed that he did not know who was responsible for the shooting of two Americans in Karachi on 3/8/95, and that he only learned of the attack from the Philippine National Police.
ADVICE OF RIGHTS
YOUR RIGHTS
Before we ask you any questions, you must understand your rights.
You have the right to remain silent.
If you have already made statements to the Philippine authorities, you still have the right to remain silent now.
Nothing the Philippine authorities may have said to you is binding on the United States government, and you should not rely on any promises or representations made to you by those authorities.
Anything you say can be used against you in court.
You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advise before we ask you any questions and to have a lawyer with you during questioning.
If you canot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish.
If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you will still have the right to stop answering at any time. You also have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to a lawyer.
WAIVER OF RIGHTS
I have read this statement of my rights and I understand what my rights are, I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. I do not want a lawyer at this time. I understand and know what I am doing. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me. In making this waiver, I am not relying on any promises or representations made to me by the Philippine authorities, nor is this waiver made in response to any pressure or coercion by the Philippine authorities.
