Phone call
March 19, 2020
BW:
Was there a moment in all of this, last two months, where you said to yourself, ah, this is the leadership test of a lifetime?
TRUMP:
No.
COMMENTARY: It was a month since I’d talked to President Trump. It was a momentous month, March of 2020. The coronavirus exploded in the United States and in the world.
On March 13th, on national television, Trump said:
TRUMP:
To unleash the full power of the federal government in this effort today, I am officially declaring a national emergency—two very big words.
Trump freed up billions of dollars in federal funds. Seventy people had died in the United States from the virus. By the end of March, that death toll had risen to 4,951 in the United States. Trump had appointed Vice President Pence to head a White House Coronavirus Task Force.
President Trump called me at home the evening of Thursday, March 19th. Earlier that day, California governor Gavin Newsom had become the first governor to order residents in the state to stay home except for essential needs. This was the first of a wave of shutdown orders across all 50 states that would eventually lead to tens of millions of unemployment claims and the nation’s greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression.
In this interview the president spoke with pride about his leadership during the pandemic. He blamed China and President Obama for the coronavirus, and Trump continued to accept no responsibility for the mounting crisis.
Again, I pushed to understand if he had a plan of action. This was a real crisis.
TRUMP:
Hi, Bob.
BW:
How are you? The busiest man in the world.
TRUMP:
Yeah, I am busy. I am busy. But, I don’t know, we have to be busy, Bob. This thing is a nasty—it’s a nasty situation, man.
BW:
Well, tell me—I have—and this again is for the book to come out before the election.
TRUMP:
Yeah.
BW:
Maybe you can give me some new insight into what’s going on. And what I’d really like to ask first is, how’s Melania doing?
TRUMP:
She’s doing great. She’s doing great. And I just got back up. It’s—I think we’re doing very well. We have to see what happens. We have it very well shut down. The American people are terrific. You know, what they’re putting up with. It came out of China. And they tried to convince people for a little while that it came out of soldiers, American—
BW:
Yes, I saw that.
TRUMP:
That’s a beauty. But that didn’t work out too well for them. But if we can end this thing, I think we’re going to be poised for some very fast growth, if you want to know the truth. Because this wasn’t really a financial thing. This was a—not at all a financial thing. This was a medical catastrophe.
BW:
Well, certainly, and of course the economy is taking a hit.
TRUMP:
Oh, sure. Well—
BW:
I’ve done this for—
TRUMP:
Well, you have no choice. This is the first time in history we are paying people not to work.
BW:
Yes, and—
TRUMP:
When you think—and we have no choice, because otherwise you’d lose millions, potentially, of people. You see what’s going on in Italy, where they were late?
BW:
Oh yes, certainly.
TRUMP:
They were so late.
BW:
I wanted to capture the moment when your son Barron asked you about this.
TRUMP:
Yeah?
BW:
Tell me a little bit more about that, because that’s very human. And what caused him to ask you?
TRUMP:
Well, he’s just turning 14, so he was 13 when he did. And he wanted to know, Dad, what’s going on?—
BW:
Where were you, in the White House?
TRUMP:
Yeah, in the White House, upstairs. In his bedroom. He said, Dad, what’s going on? What’s going on? You know, sort of cute.
BW:
Yeah.
TRUMP:
From a young kid. Smart kid. Good kid. But he goes, what’s going on? You know, because it’s so abnormal when you look at all of the stuff. You know, you turn on the news and they show a lot of places that got hit—I’ll tell you, a very big moment was when I closed it up—
BW:
So to just finish with Barron, if you would, sir—
TRUMP:
Yeah.
BW:
So he asked you what’s going on.
TRUMP:
What’s going on, Dad?
BW:
Did he cite anything that he had heard or—
TRUMP:
No, but he sees it. He sees it on television. He watches a little television, and he sees it. I mean, honestly, Bob, and you’ve seen a lot of things and you’ve covered a lot of the biggest things ever, but have you ever seen anything that has gotten—I mean, it’s, it’s—there’s nothing else even that they talk about. They don’t talk about anything else.
BW:
No. And they did on NBC tonight a six-minute segment about how to wash your hands perfectly.
TRUMP:
Yeah, I know. I know.
BW:
So imagine that.
TRUMP:
Nobody’s ever seen anything like this.
BW:
So you told Barron, you said, “It’s bad, it’s bad.” And then—
TRUMP:
I said—no, I said, it’s a very bad thing, but we’re going to straighten it out.
BW:
Did he have any other questions about, like, how are you going to—
TRUMP:
He said, how did it happen? I said, it came out of China, Barron. Pure and simple. It came out of China. And it should’ve been stopped. And to be honest with you, Barron, they should’ve let it be known it was a problem two months earlier. And we wouldn’t—the world would not—we have 141 countries have it now. And I said, the world wouldn’t have a problem. We could’ve stopped it easily. And they didn’t want to do the—they waited and waited. Kept it secret, secret. Then we started hearing things coming out. I told him how it was working. And I said, and now the whole world is infected and inflicted with this.
BW:
And did he seem comforted by it, or did he—you know, here you have your dad, the president of the United States—
TRUMP:
Oh, I know.
BW:
—saying what you said to him.
TRUMP:
Well, and he talks about it with his friends all the time. Everybody. Bob, that’s all they talk about.
BW:
Yes, I know. [laughs] I’ve never—
TRUMP:
That’s all they’re talking about. You’ve rarely seen—you’ve covered a couple of the biggest. Watergate. You’ve rarely seen anything like what’s going on.
BW:
Nothing. And wars and 9/11 and 2008.
TRUMP:
Part of it is the mystery. Part of it’s the viciousness. You know when it attacks, it attacks the lungs. And, I don’t know—when people get hit, and now it’s turning out it’s not just old people, Bob. Just today and yesterday, some startling facts came out. It’s not just old, older. Young people, too, plenty of young people—but look at what’s going on in [?]
BW:
Yeah. Exactly.
TRUMP:
—what’s going on in—
BW:
So give me a moment of talking to somebody, going through this with Fauci or somebody, who kind of, it caused a pivot in your mind. Because it’s clear just from what’s on the public record that you went through a pivot on this to, oh my God, the gravity is almost inexplicable and unexplainable.
TRUMP:
Well, I think, Bob, really to be honest with you—
BW:
Sure, I want you to be. [laughs]
TRUMP:
I wanted to—I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down, because I don’t want to create a panic. But think about it. Who was the first one that put up the border? Who was the first one to stop the Chinese? I had 21 people in my office, and of the 21 there was one person that said we have to close it down, I’m sorry. That was very early on. That was weeks—
BW:
And who was that?
TRUMP:
—ahead of when it became fashionable.
BW:
Who was the one person who—
TRUMP:
And I was called by Biden, Sleepy Joe, and I was called by all of these people, including NBC and everybody, a xenophobic and a racist and anything else you could be called because I shut it down. They said it didn’t make sense. So—
BW:
And who was the one person who wanted—
TRUMP:
—that was long before. At the same time, I said, everybody has to be calm. And I would say that a lot. Everybody has to be calm. It’s all going to work out. And they viewed that as, like, I didn’t take it seriously. I took it more seriously than they did. I closed down our country to China. You think that’s easy? And I got calls from China. Don’t—
BW:
Yeah, what’s your relationship with President Xi now?
TRUMP:
I think it’s good, but I haven’t spoken to him in a couple of weeks. But I think it’s, you know, look, he knows that I’m for this country and he’s for that country. So, you know—but I have a good relationship with him.
BW:
So tell me who was the one person—
TRUMP:
I have a good relationship with every leader of every country, which people don’t understand. I have a good relationship with all of them. But they also know that I’m doing the right thing for this country. But I—if you think of it, Bob, I shut it down—
BW:
Can you tell me who was the one person who was for—
TRUMP:
—long before—I shut this down long before it was fashionable.
BW:
Right. I understand that.
TRUMP:
I was called all sorts of names.
BW:
You said you had 21 people in the Oval Office and one person wanted to shut down China.
TRUMP:
And that was your friend. That was me.
BW:
That was you? [laughs] Okay.
TRUMP:
Yeah.
BW:
Who was opposed?
TRUMP:
Everybody—nobody wanted to, because it was too early. So when they said I didn’t take it seriously, well, how come I shut down one of the largest countries, our biggest trade, you know, everything—I shut down the biggest country. I shut it down.
COMMENTARY: I later had conclusive evidence from the participants that at least five people were in favor of the restrictions, including National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien and his deputy Matt Pottinger. But Trump continued to say it was him. He alone against the rest.
TRUMP:
They said I didn’t take it seriously.
BW:
Why did you do it?
TRUMP:
Now, what I didn’t do is run around in a panic screaming, oh, this is terrible. Because I don’t want that.
BW:
You can understand my question, Mr. President.
TRUMP:
Yeah. Go ahead.
BW:
Why did you then alone decide to cut off China?
TRUMP:
Because the consequences were so great if I didn’t.
BW:
And what were they?
TRUMP:
The consequences was tremendous death. They did something on one of the shows tonight. Southampton University, in the UK. They did a poll that I closed it down unbelievably early and three to four weeks early, earlier than anybody knew it was even a problem. A long time before the time you’re talking about. Had I not done that, there would’ve been massive numbers of deaths by now. It was a big move. Because, you know, we take in thousands of people a day from China. And China was heavily infected.
COMMENTARY: While Trump shut down travel from China on January 31st, thousands from China went to Europe, and from Europe the virus came to the United States. Subsequent detailed investigations have shown that JFK airport was a major open doorway. Friday, March 13th, Trump also suspended travel from Europe. But it was too late. The virus had already taken hold in the United States.
BW:
Let me make this real human and real. What was it like to take that test for you? To have that—
TRUMP:
I didn’t like that test. That test—
BW:
Yeah. They stick that up your nose, right?
TRUMP:
Well, they shove it up your nose, and then it hangs a right under your eye. I didn’t even know you could go there.
BW:
How long was that?
TRUMP:
Well, what they do—have you taken the test?
BW:
No, sir. I have not. I’ve not had to. No symptoms.
TRUMP:
It’s not pleasant. No, it’s a tough test. What it is, basically, is it goes up your nose and then it has to make a right turn or a left turn, either way, depending on which nostril. It goes up your nose and then it makes a right turn under your eye.
BW:
Right.
TRUMP:
And that’s where they take the sample. I didn’t even know you could go there. Right?
BW:
Yeah. And did you feel it?
TRUMP:
Yeah, I felt it. I didn’t like it, either.
BW:
And so then what happened when they took it out? How long did you have to wait?
TRUMP:
Okay, it was fine. I mean, look, it was the very professional doctors. White House doctors, as they say. Very professional. The concept is unpleasant. It’s not like they just touched a little bit of the nose. I mean, they went—they go up there.
BW:
No, listen, that’s one sensitive area. [laughs]
TRUMP:
Had you heard that, though? Have you heard this? Not an easy test.
BW:
Yes, I know. So what’s the best idea—
TRUMP:
And I only did it because the press was saying, oh, you were with the head of Brazil, the president of Brazil. Make Brazil great again. He’s a good guy. And he has it. They said he had it. Well, he didn’t have it, it turned out. Or that’s what they announced. I had no symptoms, right, but the press was my symptom. Because they kept screaming. And then after I took it they said, why did you take it? You had no symptoms. [laughs] In other words, you can’t win. So they’re screaming for me, why are you not taking it? Then when I took it, they said, why would you take it when you had no symptoms? Because you’re not supposed to take it when you have no symptoms.
BW:
Okay. So now tell me about the relationship with Fauci. You know, Fauci—as you now say you’re a wartime president, and I think that’s exactly right, by the way.
TRUMP:
This is a war.
BW:
This is a war. And he’s in many ways your Eisenhower.
TRUMP:
Well, he’s a very good guy. He’s done it before. He’s a sharp guy. I think he’s 79 years old.
BW:
Yes, he is.
TRUMP:
Very good.
BW:
He’s even older than you or me.
TRUMP:
Well, when you compare him—listen, when you compare that to Biden, and when you compare it to a lot of the people we see, right—no, he’s sharp. And he’s doing a good job. He’s a very dedicated guy.
BW:
Have you ever sat down alone with him and gotten a tutorial—
TRUMP:
Yes, I guess, but, honestly, there’s not a lot of time for that, Bob. This is a busy White House. This is a busy White House. We’ve got a lot of things happening.
COMMENTARY: He’s talking to me for hours but doesn’t have time to sit with the top infectious disease expert? He doesn’t have time to sit for a lesson on the coronavirus? I again was genuinely and deeply troubled.
TRUMP:
Look, we had the greatest economy on Earth. The greatest economy we’ve ever had. And in one day, this thing came in and we had a choice to make. Close everything up and save potentially millions of lives, you know, hundreds of thousands of lives. Or don’t do anything and look at body bags every day being taken out of apartment buildings.
BW:
Yeah. Who told you that? What was the brief—
TRUMP:
It was me. I told me that. I mean, it was—I just made that determination. It turned out to be right. You know, Italy tried to wait and look what happened. They waited.
BW:
I know, listen. Hey, listen, for 100 years, people are going to be writing about this. And I’ve got this opportunity to ask the decision-maker—you—how you got there. What was the best idea that came from, okay, how to fight this?
TRUMP:
Yeah. So we have some very talented people. Fauci is very talented. Dr. Hahn is now new.
BW:
Yes, I saw that today.
TRUMP:
He’s a very good guy. I don’t know if you saw with the medicines. They call them therapeutics. Right? But if we—if one of these two things works—and we have other things that we’re looking at. But I think one of them is actually, maybe, going to work. And that would be a game-changer, to put it mildly. But so we have people who are really terrific. Dr. Birx, the woman—
BW:
Saw that.
TRUMP:
She’s fantastic. Deborah Birx. She’s fantastic. And they’re professionals. And they’ve done it. You know, Dr. Birx was involved with the fight against AIDS, the fight against Ebola.
BW:
So what’s the best idea—
TRUMP:
Beautiful, elegant woman, I don’t know if you noticed it.
BW:
—in all of this? Other words, if I was a fly on the wall through your whole day over the last month, what would be the moment that would tell me the gravity, tell me how you are deciding, weighing information. No one understands this—
TRUMP:
I think the biggest would be that a number of months ago, I was asking, tell me about the gravity. And it was pretty new at that time. They weren’t—nobody could be totally sure. But it looked bad, because of what was going on in China. That was Wuhan Province.
BW:
Right.
TRUMP:
And it looked bad. And I was asking, I probably had seven or eight people, professionals, and we were talking about it. And I said, what is the extent of this danger we’re talking about? And all I know is that after the discussion, then more and more people would come. And ultimately there was a lot. Twenty-one, as I told you. Approximately 21 people. But I said, what is the extent? And at the end of them telling me the extent, I closed down our country to China. And Asia. And I’ll tell you what, that was probably when I felt we potentially had a problem. But even then, I took a lot of heat because a lot of the—almost all of the news was saying I moved too soon, it was too soon—if I would’ve done it four weeks later, it would’ve been a disaster. We would not even be talking about the same problem right now. We’d be talking about something that would be on a different level.
BW:
So you think closing down China was kind of the—
TRUMP:
That was the big move, yeah. We had just made a trade deal with China.
BW:
Yes, I know. Phase 1.
TRUMP:
I just made a trade—so now, I make a trade deal, the ink isn’t even dry, and I’m saying, all right, we’ve got to close it down to China. [laughs ruefully] It’s like—it’s not easy.
BW:
Have you heard any complaints from Xi or anyone about that?
TRUMP:
No, I haven’t. I have not spoken to him since, actually.
BW:
Okay. What’s the best idea about how to help the economy now—
TRUMP:
Okay. So—
BW:
—that you’ve heard, or you’re implementing.
TRUMP:
—this is a very unusual thing. Because we have to keep people in their houses. We have to keep people separate from people. We have to keep people at a distance. So this is the first time in history that there’s ever been something that they call social distancing, where—
BW:
Sure, I know.
TRUMP:
—we want to keep people apart. So what we’re doing is spending a lot of money to keep people apart. So what we want to do is keep our businesses together, not have people fired all over the place, give companies and people incentives to stick around so that when the virus is gone, we will be able to immediately open up. And I think if we can do that, it’s going to be a V instead of an L.
COMMENTARY: A V-shaped recovery means a return to normal. An L means no return to normal.
TRUMP:
You know, we’re going to have tremendous—[crosstalk]
BW:
Now what do you think of Lindsey Graham’s idea that the federal government has to protect people’s income?
TRUMP:
Well, I think it’s fine. But there are lots of ways of getting there. You have six or seven different ways of getting there. One of them’s a cash payment. One of them’s incentive to the company, where the company pays. You know, the problem is you don’t know that the company’s going to do that, so I don’t like that so much. But there are numerous ways to get there. There are numerous ways, Bob.
BW:
But it’s key, his point—
TRUMP:
But it’s a—it’s a tragedy what’s going on.
BW:
—his point really struck me, is if you think, you don’t want an inadequate unemployment check. You don’t want just a one-time—you want your income protected. If I was out there and had worked in a restaurant or something and I’m out—if somebody can come in and say, we’ll protect your income, then all of a sudden, okay, this is going to be easier than I thought. Or at least I can survive. But some of these other ideas seem, frankly, small-bore.
TRUMP:
Well, one of the things we can do is a direct cash payment. And there’s something very good about that.
BW:
Yeah. But if you protect people’s income, that’s more money—I mean, a lot of people are talking about this is going to cost $2 or $3 trillion at least.
TRUMP:
Well, we’ll make that back very quickly, Bob, if the economy stays strong and we get rid of the virus. You know, we’re taking very strong measures. They’re going to be closing down Los Angeles in a little while.
BW:
Yeah.
TRUMP:
Not only Los Angeles. Excuse me, they’re going to be closing down the state of California very soon.
BW:
I think you’re quite right. Was there a moment in all of this, last two months, where you said to yourself, ah, this is the leadership test of a lifetime?
TRUMP:
No.
BW:
No?
TRUMP:
I think it might be, but I don’t think that. All I want to do is get it solved. There are many people that said that to me. They said, you’re now a wartime president.
BW:
Who said that first to you?
TRUMP:
Oh, many people have said that to me.
BW:
Well, help me. I like to make it concrete.
TRUMP:
I don’t want to even think about it. I just want to get it solved. I don’t like to sit back and think about that kind of thing.
BW:
Why?
TRUMP:
Because I don’t have that much time to think about it, Bob. I’m busy as hell. Even making this call with you—
BW:
I understand that. And I thank you—
TRUMP:
I took the call because it’s you.
BW:
And I appreciate—
TRUMP:
Anybody else, I don’t take the calls. Which is probably a mistake. I get fake news all the time. If I talked to people, it would be—
BW:
Well, you said the news media is doing a good job, and I think you’re right. I think they’re taking this seriously.
TRUMP:
No, the news media lately has been much more fair. And they’re re—look, the poll is coming out tomorrow morning at ABC, which I hear is a great poll, as to the job I’m doing. And they can’t—one of those—ABC, at 6:00 they release it, they tell me it’s a great poll about the job I’m doing. So who knows? Look, I want to just do the job.
BW:
What I’m trying to do—
TRUMP:
You know, the news conferences I’ve been doing on a daily basis, because I think it keeps people informed and it’s been good, they’ve gotten very good reviews, but they’ve also gotten unbelievable ratings. And if I would speak to all the reporters that would call, I’d get the greatest press in the world. But I can’t do that. [BW laughs] I wouldn’t be able to do my job, Bob.
COMMENTARY: Earlier in the day, Trump had given an 80-minute press briefing in which he controversially promoted the use of the drug hydroxychloroquine as an alleged treatment for the virus. “If things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody,” Trump said.
BW:
The most important thing is for a definitive book to come out before the election—
TRUMP:
That’s why I’m talking to you. I have respect for you. I wish I talked to you on the last book. I would’ve had a whole different book. Look, nobody’s done what I’ve done in the last three and a half—
BW:
Okay, now help me with this. How are you going to engage your supporters, because you can’t have rallies now, or you’re not going to?
TRUMP:
Oh, I don’t know. We’ll find—hey, I just want to tell you before I forget. So I just signed my 220th judge, federal judge, plus two Supreme Court justices. I have 44 more to sign. I’ll be at 260, 270, maybe even 280.
BW:
Uh-huh.
TRUMP:
Maybe even 300 by the end of the first term. It’s unheard of, Bob.
BW:
Maybe they’ll put a statue of you outside the Supreme Court. [laughs]
TRUMP:
Oh, what a good idea. I think I’ll have it erected tomorrow. What a great idea. I think I’ll use it. I won’t—I won’t say it came from me. [laughs] No, but think of that, Bob.
BW:
Hey, listen, I did a whole book on the Supreme Court and have a—
TRUMP:
Well, you know what that is. I’m going to get very close to 300. I might even hit it. But I’m already at 220 and have 40 in for approval. Forty!
BW:
So what do you think of the health care information coming out of China? Because now they’re saying they had not a single infection yesterday. Do you believe that?
TRUMP:
Probably not. But I’m not focused on that.
BW:
Someone said there’s some intel coming out that—
TRUMP:
I know. They put out intel. They also said it didn’t come from them, it came from American soldiers, so, I mean—
BW:
So you’re skeptical?
TRUMP:
Well, I’m skeptical. I don’t want to be skeptical, but I’m a skeptical person. Right? I hope it’s true. Because that would mean there can be an end to this. Because we’re going to be following them. We’re a couple of months behind in the sense that it hit us a couple of months later.
BW:
And a lot of people have criticized you for when you said you take no responsibility. And I understand the context of that—
TRUMP:
No, I don’t take responsibility for this. I have nothing to do with this.
BW:
Yeah, well—
TRUMP:
I take responsibility for solving the problem.
BW:
Okay.
TRUMP:
But I don’t take responsibility for this, no. We did a good job. Look, the testing, we were never set up for testing. The Obama administration, they were obsolete tests. And in all fairness to them, nobody ever thought in terms of millions of people. You know, they had a test that was fine for CDC. But it was a very minor test.
COMMENTARY: Coronavirus did not exist during the Obama administration. The first tests for COVID were created by the Centers for Disease Control in early 2020.
TRUMP:
Now, the other thing is, we’re just trying to help out governors and states, Bob.
BW:
Yeah. When you asked Pence to run this, what did you say to him and what’d he say to you?
TRUMP:
Well, I had a choice. I had a lot of people that wanted to run it. And I asked Mike. I said, what about it? And Mike is very good and he’s a good manager. I said, Mike, what about you doing it? And he jumped at the chance. And I think he’s done a very professional job. Very good job. What do you think?
BW:
Listen, he’s there, he’s every day. He’s calm. He’s factual.
TRUMP:
Right. He’s calm, he’s cool. He’s done a very good job, a really good job! And we’re getting great marks. I mean, take a look at the poll tomorrow. We’re getting great marks.
BW:
We will see. What do you hear from some of the other leaders? Like Abe in Japan or from South Korea?
TRUMP:
Well, let me tell you about the leaders here first.
BW:
Okay.
TRUMP:
Cuomo is saying great things. Gavin Newsom—and we always, you know, go back and forth. He’s been saying great things. You saw what he said today, or you saw what Cuomo said today and yesterday? We’re getting very good marks from the governors. We’re helping the governors. Because, you know, it’s a local problem. You can’t solve that federally. But we’re helping the governors and we’re getting very good marks. Today I had a meeting with fifty governors—
BW:
How’d that go?
TRUMP:
It was a 10. Nobody—the news was there. They—
BW:
And Larry Hogan is out criticizing you. The Maryland governor.
TRUMP:
When did he do that?
BW:
Oh, he said something—they asked did they get the testing going up fast enough, and he said no, it was a failure.
TRUMP:
Well, Hogan is a third-rate guy, in my opinion. I don’t think he does a good job. I mean, I really don’t. I don’t think he does a good job. But he was very good today. I will tell you this.
BW:
Can I ask you this? Where you say it’s a local problem, I think—and the reason I’m bothering you tonight when you’re the busiest man in the world—
TRUMP:
No, it’s a—I don’t say it’s a local—But look, Bob, federal government can’t be running every little city and town.
BW:
No, of course not, but you set the tone and people have expectations.
TRUMP:
Well, I don’t know about Hogan, but if you take a look at Gavin Newsom and every other governor—I heard—look, I was—Hogan was there today. And Hogan said fantastic things. Take a look at what he said today, Bob.
BW:
Yeah. Okay. Well, he was picking at you.
TRUMP:
Wait a minute. Was it this afternoon? When was it?
BW:
I don’t know. I just saw a clip of him at a podium saying that.
TRUMP:
See, there’s a case of the fake news. So I have 50 governors on a call. It was a teleconference. Every one of them was positive, including Hogan. And the fake news finds a problem with Hogan. And Hogan’s bad news. He’s the most overrated governor in the country. So that’s the story. Okay. Well, who cares?
BW:
Okay. So what’s the plan now—
TRUMP:
But that’s fake news, Bob. They don’t even go after a Democrat. There’s no Democrats.
BW:
Now, help me with this. What are the next steps? You must have in your mind a checklist or a to-do—
TRUMP:
My next step is I’ve got 20 calls waiting for me on this stuff, and I’ve got to get making them. Okay? That’s my next steps. My next steps, Bob, is I have to do a great job.
BW:
Okay. Yes, exactly.
TRUMP:
And I have to be very professional.
BW:
This is the leadership test—
TRUMP:
And I’m doing the news conferences and I’m giving the reporters plenty of time to ask all the questions in their little hearts. And I think that people are respecting what’s happening. And I think, frankly, since I started doing the news conferences, it’s all turned around. Because we’ve done a great job. And you’ve got to always say one of the best parts of the great job was the shutdown of China very, very early.
BW:
Okay. I’m going to look at that in detail. I’m going to try—I know Tony Fauci. My wife, Elsa, and I have had him at our house here some time ago. He’s quite a—I mean, he’s unique.
TRUMP:
He’s a very good guy. Say hello to him.
BW:
Well, you see him every day.
TRUMP:
Well, I do. Every day, every other day. But you’ll speak to him, if you’re going to call him now. But he’s a very good guy. He is. He’s a very good guy. So anyway.
BW:
Who else—
TRUMP:
When is your book coming out?
BW:
It’ll come out in September. Let’s hope. The last word is, this is over. If this is over—
TRUMP:
I’d love that to happen. Bob, once it ends—because I’m very good at finance. Once it ends, our country is going to go like a rocket ship. It’s going to be great.
BW:
Yeah. But a lot of people are going to be hurting.
TRUMP:
Well, they will be, but they’ll gain it back, Bob.
BW:
This is why—
TRUMP:
A lot of your friends have been hurt. But it wasn’t—hey, Bob, it was no fault of mine, and it was no fault of anybody’s. It just happened. Except maybe China. China, it was China’s fault.
BW:
No question, or, well, it was—one of the accidents of nature. Don’t you think that’s what President Xi—
TRUMP:
Well, it came from a place where it could’ve been stopped.
BW:
So of the 20 calls stacked up, what’s the next one you’re going to make?
TRUMP:
Next four are going to be four senators talking about the bill.
BW:
Ah, good. Who’s leading the charge on this?
TRUMP:
Well, all. But I have Steve Mnuchin—smart guy, good guy. He’s leading it right now, along with other people. We have some great financial people, though. You know, it’s very different. We have a medical problem. And we don’t have a financial problem, Bob. We have a medical problem.
BW:
Yes, but you—
TRUMP:
So in the other days we had the financial problem. Right? This is a medical problem.
BW:
Let me be a pest on this question of protecting people’s incomes. Take a poll of what’s the average worker out there worried about—yeah, they’re happy to get a check, they’re happy to get, what is it, $322 a week in unemployment insurance. Like, this idea of a stimulus—
TRUMP:
Well, we’re going to do better than that, Bob. That’s not the right number.
BW:
Well, I mean, some places that’s the number. It depends locally—
TRUMP:
No, I know, but we’re doing it better than that.
BW:
People want their income protected.
TRUMP:
We’re actually going to make a cash payment. We’re going to do it different ways. We haven’t exactly finalized it, so, you know—
BW:
And the biggest mistake in this, if I may say, having done too many of these things—
TRUMP:
Yeah?
BW:
—will be if you and I talk in two months and you haven’t done enough.
TRUMP:
Go ahead. Go ahead.
BW:
—you haven’t done enough. Doing too much is not a problem. Because—
TRUMP:
Oh, I love that. No, no. Hey, I agree with you. No, we’re going big. This is a big—
BW:
And you’ve got to think about—
TRUMP:
Yeah. We’re at $1.3 trillion. It may be higher than that. We can go back for more if we need it.
BW:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just—look, it’s a political—
TRUMP:
No, no, we’re going big. Look, we have options. We could do the hundred, two hundred, another hundred—no, no. We’re going big.
BW:
Okay.
TRUMP:
Absolutely.
BW:
And I tell you, if the workers in two months or three months or six months say, my income was protected. And I know Lindsey, because I talked to him, Lindsey Graham, he said to you, your number one job is to protect people’s income.
TRUMP:
Well, no, protect people’s lives. And then also protect their income. I’ve got a double-whammy here. I’ve got to protect their lives, too. This thing is vicious.
BW:
I agree.
TRUMP:
It’s the most contagious virus anyone’s ever seen.
BW:
You have—so when my book comes out, people are going to look back and they’re going to say, was everything done? I wrote books on 9/11, the terrorist attacks, which you remember vividly.
TRUMP:
Absolutely. Great.
BW:
And always the problem was, are we doing enough? Now what they had to do was take this great espionage establishment that we had and gear it up, and they threw $50 billion to the intelligence community. And we never had another big terrorist attack. A giant accomplishment.
TRUMP:
Yeah. Let’s talk about that for a second.
BW:
Yes, sir.
TRUMP:
Since we last spoke, I took out al-Baghdadi. I took out our wonderful Iranian general, right? Soleimani—
BW:
Soleimani, yes.
TRUMP:
—who was the king of the roadside bomb. The king. Ninety-two percent of the bombs planted were because of him, directly or indirectly. That’s Soleimani. I took out the son of Osama bin Laden, who was a bad one. And I took out the head of three different terrorist organizations. That’s since we last met. And did plenty of other things, too. And, you know, one of the big things, you know, I don’t want to bore you with it, but you know how important it is—are the judges. I mean, nobody’s ever done the judges that I’ve done. Nobody.
BW:
That’s right, and—
TRUMP:
You know, you have presidents that never got to appoint a Supreme Court judge. I’ve appointed two in three years.
BW:
Now, listen, I understand that. They always thought, well, who’s Jimmy Carter going to appoint? He got none, as I recall.
TRUMP:
I think he had none, yeah. He deserved—
BW:
Yeah, he had none.
TRUMP:
He deserved none.
BW:
[laughs] And it broke his heart. So if I go out and talk to 50 people in September before this book comes out and I say, how did President Trump do? There’ll be the medical question, and there’s going to be the economic question.
TRUMP:
Right.
BW:
Because even the people who don’t get the disease are affected in a profound way.
TRUMP:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely right.
BW:
I mean, the numbers—even if the worst—
TRUMP:
Everybody’s affected one way or the other. Some people both ways.
BW:
It’s going to be very interesting to see what the scorecard from the person on the street is, if the answer is President Trump protected my health, if he led, and he protected my income. That’s what people—
TRUMP:
Well, you might get a good idea by then. It’s going to be a little further down the road, I think.
BW:
Yeah. Well, it’s not my idea, I’m just—
TRUMP:
You’ll have a pretty good idea by then, Bob, I think.
BW:
Okay. That’s great. What else do I need to know?
TRUMP:
Ummmmm… [loud sigh] I mean, if you asked me the question two weeks ago, I would’ve said we have the strongest economy in the world. We soon will again, as soon as I get rid of the scourge.
BW:
Yeah. Well—
TRUMP:
Very good management. Very calm. The news is, it’s very fake. It’s all fake news.
BW:
How’s Pompeo?
TRUMP:
Doing a very good job. Solid rock.
BW:
What’s his focus now?
TRUMP:
Yeah, he’s doing a good job. Smart guy. Number one in his class at West Point.
BW:
Right.
TRUMP:
Smart guy. Number one at Harvard, I understand.
BW:
What’s his assignment now?
TRUMP:
The world, you know. He’s doing everything. We’re having lots of different discussions about lots of different things. He’s a very good person. Good guy. Good, solid guy.
BW:
You know, Warren Buffett agrees with you on the negative trade deficits.
TRUMP:
Really?
BW:
Have you ever talked to him about it?
TRUMP:
Anybody that does business, it’s ridiculous. I inherited a mess. We were losing $550 billion with China. Did you see the trade deficit’s way down with China now, Bob?
BW:
But what’s important, and the Buffett point on this is that the transfer of wealth—other words, we’re giving China all this money. And we get goods, yes, and the Gary Cohns of the world say, well, it’s an even trade. But Buffett and you and Lighthizer say, uh-uh. That is a transfer of wealth to China. They get the money.
TRUMP:
Totally! It’s a transfer of wealth and it’s a transfer of jobs, okay? The people that don’t get it, sometimes they’re called free traders. They really have to go back to school. There’s never been anything like what happened, and I stopped it. I’ve stopped the flow. Hey, Bob, I have to go. I’ve got all these senators waiting.
BW:
Okay, sir. Good talking to you. I’ll be in touch. Thank you.
TRUMP:
Let me know when you’re ready. We’ll talk. I love talking—
BW:
I’ve recorded this for my history book, and I appreciate it.
TRUMP:
That’s okay. I don’t mind. I figured you did. Let me know when you’re ready. We’ll talk again. Thanks, Bob.
BW:
Thank you, sir. Bye.
[Recording ends]
COMMENTARY: The United States was the first country in the world to record more than 100,000 cases of coronavirus.