xsisterhoodx

Interview with Kelly (Brother) Leonard

xsisterhoodx.com is an online magazine and community devoted to the women of the straight edge and hardcore scenes. It has been administered by Kelly (Brother) Leonard since the 1990s, and has been essential in forming an international network of politically conscious and engaged straight edge women. Kelly works as a Marketing Web Manager and lives in East Haven, Connecticut, with her husband and daughter.

For those who are not familiar with it, please tell us about xsisterhoodx.

xsisterhoodx.com is an on-line community and zine dedicated to the girls/women of the hardcore and straight edge scenes. Founded in the early nineties as a small e-mail discussion group, xsisterhoodx has evolved into a worldwide on-line community of over 10,000 people of both sexes. xsisterhoodx strives—though we are not always 100 percent successful—to be a positive force in the scene by encouraging positive discussion and involvement.

It seems hard to deny that the hardcore and straight edge scenes are extremely male-dominated, and that this in turn renders them unattractive to many women. What is it that still draws you and other women to it, and what are your experiences from being involved in one of the major projects dedicated to strengthening the position of women within the scene?

I don’t think the fact that hardcore is male-dominated is what makes the scene unattractive to many women. For some, it may be a big reason why they are attracted to it. From an outsider’s perspective, male or female, hardcore might be viewed as violent, extreme, and dangerous. The music is aggressive, the shows are intense, and the people involved in the scene tend to band together in tight-knit cliques. People, not just women, may find those factors intimidating.

When you say that the male dominance of the scene is not what makes the scene unattractive to many women, then what is it? Or asked differently: why is the scene so male-dominated?

I think it’s a combination of factors. The first being exposure. It has been my observation that little girls are taught to shy away from the more aggressive aspects of life, where little boys are encouraged to seek them out. Younger boys find out from older friends and relatives about hardcore. They tag along and go to shows. Girls on the other hand tend to not have that older friend or sister exposing them to the scene. On top of the exposure factor, younger girls may have a hard time convincing their parents to let them go to shows. I know I had a hell of time convincing my mom I would be safe. For years she was convinced that if I went to a show in Newburgh, NY, I would get stabbed. Even now, at almost thirty years old, my mom still worries about me going to shows. It’s nutty.

So how did you find your way into the scene then? And how did you deal with the male dominance?

Growing up I was a typical tomboy. Most of my friends were guys. I was never much of a girly girl. So, when I first stumbled upon hardcore the fact that it was male-dominated didn’t strike me as an issue. Before my first hardcore show my dad had taken me to see a few bands in arena settings. My first hardcore show was somewhat of an awakening. No stadium seating or large screens. It was so much more intimate, more visceral. I was drawn in by the passion and excitement of the shows. I think those feelings are what attracts people to hardcore. Now almost fifteen years later I still feel that excitement when I go to a show. That is what keeps me involved.

What were the reactions when you started xsisterhoodx?

My experiences from being involved with xsisterhoodx have run the gamut from being intensely rewarding to mind-numbingly frustrating. Every once in a while I’ll get an e-mail from a young girl thanking me for xsisterhoodx. They all have incredible stories, and they’re all looking for the same thing: a place where they can feel accepted. It’s an awesome feeling, when someone validates all the time and effort I have put into xsisterhoodx. It truly is a labor of love. But for every positive, there is a negative. I’ve received tons of hate mail, mostly misogynistic rhetoric, and obscenities. There are people who hate me, hate xsisterhoodx, and really have no understanding of who I am, and what xsisterhoodx is about. There are women who at their core do not believe that women belong in hardcore, who try to talk me down. People try to involve xsisterhoodx in their own agendas, be it to promote their lifestyle, movement, or ideas. But, I have no intention of letting that happen.

It sometimes seems that the male dominance in the scene perpetuates itself in the form of a self-fulfilling prophecy: like, it’s been a reality for so long that one doesn’t even notice developments challenging it. Do you think that women in the scene are sometimes simply overlooked or not taken seriously?

I’m not sure if the women of the scene are being overlooked. A lot of attention has been being paid to the numbers of girls who are going to shows, and even more attention is being paid to what they are wearing and how they choose to conduct their personal affairs. If you do a quick search on MySpace you’ll find page after page of groups that exist to eliminate “sluts” in the scene. Slogans like “slut free” and “girls with self respect” are smattered across personal profiles as badges of honor. Women are not being overlooked, they are being scrutinized. And it’s not just the men and boys who are leading the charge, it’s other women and girls. Women have turned on each other. Calling each other out and fighting over who is really hardcore and who belongs in the scene.

Now I’m all for people having self-respect. But, when a group uses a term like that to promote a moral agenda I have a major problem. Frankly, I don’t care who sleeps with who in the hardcore scene, and if Jill Hardcore wants to sleep with all the members of her favorite band, it’s none of my business, and it certainly is not the hardcore scene’s business. It seems to me that a girl or woman who truly has self-respect will respect other people and refrain from using judgmental terms like slut.

People like to say girls don’t get respect in the scene and are not taken seriously because they “sleep around” or are seen as social climbers. These thoughts and ideas are not unique to the hardcore scene and are pervasive throughout society. One would think that a progressive sub-culture/scene could get beyond such thinking.

I find it very interesting that you see women in the scene scrutinized rather than overlooked. But let me specify my question from before then: are women’s contributions to the scene—as artists, promoters, zine editors, etc.—often disregarded?

I don’t think that they are so much disregarded but marginalized. There are so many more girls who are active in the scene than when I first got involved that it would be hard to overlook what women as a group have been able to accomplish. However, rather than given credit for their accomplishments, they are brushed aside, and treated as jokes. I can’t tell you how many times kids have called xsisterhoodx a joke. The comments aren’t based on what xsisterhoodx is about, or our politics, but simply on the fact that we are a group of girls and women who want to support one another. How many times has a female guitarist gotten on stage only to hear “show me your boobs” or an equally objectifying comment? Granted, I don’t see it as much as I used to at shows, but the objectifying and marginalization of women in the hardcore scene is alive and well on message boards all over the internet.

What about international networking? Is this a big aspect of xsisterhoodx?

xsisterhoodx has members from around the world. Though most of the members who participate regularly are from the States. It’s definitely a goal to get more women/girls from around the world to participate and network with each other.

At the risk of making gross generalizations: Do you think that women in the straight edge movement are often more politically conscious and active than many of the men?

Straight edge is a funny thing. At its core it’s just a few simple statements that a person agrees to live by. And that’s it. There are no moral or ethical strings attached. The basic clean-living principals of straight edge fit neatly into a lot of religious and conservative values, so, making the leap between straight edge and conservatism, be it religious or social, is not really a leap but a small step to the right.

In my experience living on the east coast, and growing up in liberal states, the straight edge girls that I have known personally have been politically conscious and active in a progressive manner. They tend to be more aware of women’s rights issues, fighting for equality, and voting on such matters. On the other hand, I have had many on-line encounters with girls/women from the bread basket states who are just as politically conscious, but could hardly be described as progressive. I’ve talked to quite a few women who believe that women should not work, and who willingly give up their rights and freedoms to their husbands, and boyfriends.

Now back to your question. No, I don’t think that women in the scene are any more active than the guys. I haven’t seen too much activity, at least politically, in the hardcore/straight edge scene for a long time. I can remember going to shows when I was a teenager where the walls would be lined with tables of people who were involved in anti-racist movements, political movements, and animal liberation. It has been a long time since I’ve seen anything like that.

Not exactly an encouraging sign...

No, it isn’t.

How do you see the connections between straight edge and feminist politics? Can the two support each other? Do they?

Like I said earlier, straight edge is simply a set of statements that a person agrees to live by. I see no reason why straight edge and feminist politics wouldn’t support each other. Feminism is about being able to make your own choices, and in a way so is straight edge. I made the decision long ago to abstain from alcohol, not because I believe alcohol to be morally wrong, but because I feel that I do not want any substance that will inhibit my ability to make good choices for myself.

One of the aspects of the straight edge hardline scene in the 1990s that drove me nuts was the militant anti-abortion stance that developed in certain circles. Like, some zines looked like youth propaganda material for Operation Rescue. I never understood how such attitudes could enter a scene that claimed to be progressive, rebellious, even revolutionary. What’s your take on that?

I started to get into this a bit in one of my previous responses. It’s pretty easy for me to see how someone who is socially and/or religiously conservative, or in hardline’s case fanatical, can find out about straight edge and feel like it really fits into their life. Without the context of the hardcore scene, straight edge is really just a few, and I have to admit, conservative rules, that fit very nicely into a lot of core religious and conservative lifestyles. When you add the hardcore element, and one remembers when, where, and why straight edge came about; that’s when the progressive, rebellious, and revolutionary aspects come to light. I think people have always understood music’s ability to spread a message or an agenda, and the hardline movement recognized that and took advantage of the power and passion of music, just as the more progressive movements did.

Kinda related to this: I have to admit that I was very happy to read that you distanced yourself from the views of Bring Back Prohibition, a group that was featured with an interview and an article on your site. To be honest, to me their self-righteousness and militancy represents just about everything that’s wrong with straight edge politics. Calling hardline “beautiful and as close to perfection as mortal people can get” sounds really frightening to me. And then there’s the troubling suggestion that we shall rely on the government and laws for positive social change. Can I ask you how their views even ended up on your site?

There are a lot of views that appear on xsisterhoodx that I do not agree with. However, even though I disagree with the views of Bring Back Prohibition, they are a part of the straight edge world and just because I don’t agree with them does not mean that they do not exist. The article that was written for xsisterhoodx served as a catalyst for a lot of positive discussion. Good questions were raised and people for the most part behaved in a respectful manner. I am not one for censorship, and I believe that people have the right to express their beliefs, even if those beliefs contradict my own. However, I will not publish works of hatred on xsisterhoodx. I know that sounds a bit contradictory, but I will not allow xsisterhoodx to become a soapbox for hate. I do want xsisterhoodx to be a place where people can go and and feel that they can express their opinions and beliefs.

I am in complete agreement with you that we should not rely on the government and laws for positive social change. I also believe that we should never give the government the power which Bring Back Prohibition suggests. I think the vast majority of xsisterhoodx readers feel the same way and it was evident in their response to the article.

You already suggested that it’s a hard line to draw—but can you give us any indication of where “hatred” would start for you?

Hatred starts where respect ends. When it comes to a difference of opinion, as long as the conversation is respectful who am I to censor it? Sometimes the best way to make positive change is to have respectful dialog about the very ideas you wish to challenge. We can’t just put our hands over our eyes and ears every time someone has a difference of opinion.

Let me quote the xsisterhoodx mission: “xsisterhoodx strives to be a positive force in a scene divided. Our goal is to create balance and eliminate the biases which exist in today’s global scene. As a community we encourage and support positive discussion and involvement without the negativity and posturing often found on the web. We stand against violence and elitism and do not tolerate bigotry, racism, sexism, or discrimination in any form.” Have you come closer to this goal? Have you been able to build a community that lives up to these ideals?

I believe I’ve built the foundation for a community that can one day live up to all those ideals. It’s up to the individual members to really make that mission statement a reality. Some things we are better at than others. One of our biggest challenges has been managing expectations. Some people read “support positive discussions...” and assume that when they make a post everyone will agree with them and no one will challenge them. Such is not the case. And when said person is challenged they get very upset and claim that the site is not positive. The biggest challenge by far is getting people involved. People like to say they’re a part of xsisterhoodx, but only a small percentage write for the site, or post on the boards.

I think that’s often the case—you know, that the core group of those who are really active is rather small. Let me ask you about the men who are part of the xsisterhoodx community: Is there a rough percentage you could give us? And are some of them amongst your more active contributors?

We have quite a few male supporters, and surprisingly a fair amount of our contributors and regular posters are male.

What are your feelings about where xsisterhoodx is at right now?

Right now xsisterhoodx is in a bit of a lull. I gave birth to my daughter seven months ago and have had to learn to juggle her needs, work, my family, and xsisterhoodx. I have been working on a new version of the site with updated functionality and new content. Once the new site is launched I hope to be able to keep the momentum going.

Sounds like you are still motivated to put a lot of effort into the site/zine. On a personal level, what would you say is the most rewarding aspect of the work?

To create an environment where girls/women, and the people who support them, can feel comfortable expressing their opinions and ideas. Furthermore, to promote and highlight people who are really taking what xsisterhoodx has written in our mission statement and making it a reality. I also think it is important to cover the straight edge and hardcore scenes from a media perspective.

Final question: What are your future visions for xsisterhoodx? And for the straight edge scene—and its politics—as a whole?

My vision for xsisterhoodx is to keep making it bigger and better. I would like to see us grow and make more meaningful connections with one another. By grow I don’t necessarily mean in numbers. Grow, evolve, however it is phrased. I want to see xsisterhoodx take it to the next level. I would also like to see a lot more girls getting involved and contributing to the website.

As for the straight edge scene, I’d like to see it remain as a positive force in young people’s lives. I prefer the politics of the scene be geared toward positive change, not moral or religious agendas.