Cassandra Eason
MT: First of all, Cassandra, I’m so grateful to you for your time and being so willing to be interviewed for this project. Before we begin proper, which particular Pagan tradition do you feel is your main oath? You are known as a Druid, but you also write books with a very Wiccan feel and flavour.
CE: Yes, I am a Druidess, and both Druidry and Wicca revere nature and the sanctity of life and believe in harming none by thought, word, or deed. The main difference is that Wicca focuses on a goddess and god icon/mother and father separately as part of a dual deity structure. The Goddess is often seen as the original creating mother from whom the male god separated, and then they together brought about creation. In Druidry, though there are many Celtic gods and goddesses, these were before the Roman influence—depicted either in animal form such as Epona the horse goddess (whom the Romans also revered), or as nature deities, such as Druantia the silver fir goddess. Druidry often emphasizes ceremonies under the eye of the sun, outdoors in the early morning, while Wicca is more lunar, nighttime based with special reverence for the full moon. Together they form a balance, and I believe that we should adapt all forms of nature spirituality and form our own individual belief systems.
MT: So was the figure of Jesus, to a lesser or greater degree, part of your upbringing as a child?
CE: Jesus was a huge part of my upbringing in the working-class industrial Midlands, both in school and in my three-times-on-Sunday visits to church with my mother. At sixty-one, I can still sing all the words of “Jesus Bids Us Shine” and “Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam.” I used to get very upset as a child that Jesus had been hurt to save me, and I tried very, very hard to be good. I was aware that Jesus was watching me all the time and he would know if I lied. This fear stayed with me till I was about twelve, when I told my first lie and the world did not come crashing down. I suspect my mother and the school planted and encouraged my view of Jesus as a cosmic policeman.
MT: And does he still hold an importance for you?
CE: Jesus is much less significant to me than the Mother Goddess and the Virgin Mary, whom I regard as an expression of the divine mother principle. I am especially drawn to the Black Earth Madonnas from the Middle Eastern tradition that may be found in many French churches, often hidden away.
As I have become older, Jesus has become to me a very wise prophet who tried to make people more caring. That said, in times of stress I still find myself singing hymns about Jesus and my family. I regard it as a sign to back off fast. Amazingly, I was talking to a friend of a similar age who lives in France, and we discovered that we both were able to recall and sing “Jesus Bids Us Shine” and all the “Jesus Loves Me” hymns.
MT: Do you consider Jesus to have been a historical person?
CE: I believe he was a historical person and a great religious icon. Almost all pre-Christian and Neopagan religions have the idea of the sacrifice god who died to give his body so the crops would grow; before that was the sacrificed animal god. The Hanged Man in the tarot, Odin of the Norse gods hanging on the world tree, again reflects the sacrifice principle to attain enlightenment. So I suspect whether or not Jesus was crucified, the Resurrection, a feature of many pre-Christian sacrifice myths, may have been emphasised to fit in with the beliefs of the Pagan peoples and make Christianity more acceptable to them. This was especially so once St. Paul widened the belief base to include all believers, not just those with a Jewish background.
When I walk round a beautiful church or cathedral, the spirit of Jesus often seems very remote except as the child or infant with Mary, where there is an immediate humanising for me. Most poignant for me as a mother of grown children are the heart-rending images of Maria Dolorosa, the aging Mary holding her dead son. Jesus is a sky being, so I relate better to Mary whose ascension to heaven was, I suspect, a convenient device to totally de-sexualise and de-humanise the mother of God.
MT: What feelings or thoughts does the Christmas story conjure up in you?
CE: Always being the old shepherd in a smelly blanket in the Nativity play at school while my blonde-haired, blue-eyed slender friend got the star role. However, I loved the idea of the wise men bringing gifts and the angels coming down. To me, the Christmas story was a fabulous pantomime, and I never really connected the story strongly with the Jesus who saved me and the guilt trip. Angels were like fairies. When I had children of my own, Nativity plays became a chore of providing costumes and trying to get time off to see them in the third row from the back. I think my real problem is because the story still often has a strong Anglo-Saxon blonde, blue-eyed Mary feel instead of the reality of the Middle East. The closest connection for me is T. S. Eliot’s poem “The Journey of the Magi.” A cold coming we had of it that I read in my late teens.
In recent years, I have related to the story more as the Mother Goddess giving birth to the new sun king, though of course Jesus was not born in midwinter historically.
MT: And Easter?
CE: The Spring Equinox still affects the Christian dating of Easter and was again hugely significant in many pre-Christian religions as the time of the sacrifice and resurrection of the slain god, though others link the sacrifice with the harvest. The hot cross buns come from an older tradition of Mother Goddess equinox cakes; Easter was the time when in the Norse tradition Ostara, the maiden goddess of spring, opened the doors of the new year with her magical white hare (our Easter rabbit). I always found Good Friday such a dark, frightening day as a child; the church was blacked out and there were black drapes and long, boring silences and dirges. I am glad about the revival of the pre-Christian Equinox/Easter fires in some modern churches. But because Easter heralds such a season of hope (in the Southern Hemisphere, of course, the Christian Easter is close to the Autumn Equinox), I associate Easter mainly with spring flowers and Easter bonnets. In the industrial Midlands of my childhood, the flower sellers would sell bunches of Easter primroses and violets, and the crocus in our back yard would come into bloom. I always had a straw hat trimmed with flowers and exchanged my long woollen grey stockings for white socks—even if it was freezing.
MT: If there’s one favourite story, parable, teaching, or symbol of Jesus for you, what is it?
CE: My favourite parable would have to be the one about the loaves and fishes because I can relate to that, often feeding my five children and all their friends when the store cupboard was half empty. It seemed such a practical useful miracle, much more so than turning water into wine at a wedding.
It showed Jesus as a caring, hands-on person who was not just interested in being the great guru; he made sure everyone listening to him had something to eat. That was one of the few times I related to Jesus as a person.
MT: Who do you think Jesus was? For example, a Jewish teacher, a divine prophet, a valid deity, a miracle worker, or a magician?
CE: I would say all of these depending on which qualities people need to emphasise. The attraction of Jesus is that he acts as an icon for people who need miracles, for those who want a deity to worship, for a man who could apparently go against the laws of science, walk on water, and say nothing is impossible if you want it enough. But for me, the teacher and prophet images are best, for he never actually wanted a great fuss to be made about him, according to what we read. He was the son of God, but according to many spiritual traditions, anyone created by a god or goddess figure is a son or daughter of God. So, in that sense, he was divine and we are all divine. We are all spiritual beings in a physical body who, as the created, carry the spark of the creator. Jesus had maybe a larger spark than most, but he spoke for us all.
MT: What lesson do you feel the modern-day church needs to hear from the person or teaching of Jesus?
CE: The modern-day church needs to learn from Jesus to get out into life and help people in need, not sit around arguing principles of theology or who should be a churchwarden. People are desperate for guidance and inspiration and the half-empty churches testify that organised religion is not offering that inspiration. This is not to generate more trendy guitar-playing priests but ministers who go out into the everyday life, get their hands dirty, and challenge corrupt politicians as the voice of ordinary people. Church laws created centuries ago should be reassessed in terms of what Jesus who went out among the people would have wanted, given the realities of the modern world.
MT: Is it possible to be both Christian and Pagan?
CE: It is possible to be both Christian and Pagan; Pagans believe in respecting all life forms and harming none, by thought, word, or deed. All gods and goddesses are ultimately one higher divine creative force. Goodness is goodness no matter in whose name you ask for it or try to live a good life. Even within Christianity there have been arguments about whose god is best. I am a Quaker as well as Pagan and Quakers believe there is good or God/the Goddess in everyone.
MT: What, if anything, can modern-day Pagans learn from the message of Jesus?
CE: Modern-day Pagans can learn from Jesus that you have to have the courage of your convictions and that sometimes you do need to operate from within the world in which you live while challenging its injustices through legitimate means. Jesus did turn over the tables of the money lenders, but I would not advise Pagans to follow suit in their local banks.
MT: And what, if anything, can Christians learn from modern-day Paganism?
CE: Christians can learn from the Pagan principle that what you send out you get back three times. So you cannot just confess to a Christian priest or priestess that you are sorry and have your sins wiped out with three Hail Marys. Even if Jesus did die for your sins, you have to try to put things right if you do wrong and live with consequences.
MT: Cassandra, I was thrilled when I heard of your willingness to be interviewed and I’m even more delighted now that I have. It’s been fascinating and enlightening. Thank you very much indeed.
CE: You’re welcome.
About the Author
Cassandra Eason is a prolific author of many books, including Pagan in the City (Quantum/Foulsham UK) and Angel Magic: Inspiration for Busy People (Piatkus UK). Contact her via her website: www.cassandraeason
.com for spiritual advice and online courses.