Although Debi Manwiller went to Cal Arts and graduated with a B.F.A. in Theatre Arts, she calls her career in casting, “an accident...” a friend had started in casting and Manwiller was intrigued. She learned that casting was pretty close to her love for theatre, so she gave herself a year to see if she could live without acting. Very quickly, she discovered she was “immensely happy” and stayed in casting. She met Rick Pagano in 1989 and by 1990, Pagano and Manwiller were partnered. They, along with casting director Peggy Kennedy, cast the critically acclaimed series 24, The Black List, Franklin & Bash, Chicago Hope, as well as many MOWs and features such as Very Bad Things and The Astronaut’s Wife.
I can’t remember the last play we cast, but we used to cast ten or twelve a year. For the right director or for a play that we love, we’d do it again. You have to have an amazing passion to cast theatre in Los Angeles because actors are just so hard to book. They don’t want to come in for it. Actors are trying to make a living just like everybody else and theatre doesn’t pay very well. It’s hard to cast theatre out of Los Angeles because it’s sending people to work out of town for $500 a week, when they think they might get a film or TV role instead. The argument we always made when we’re casting theatre was that, even though it’s not a lot of money, it’s steady for a guaranteed period of time, even if it’s out of town. The option is to either take it or wait for a day’s episodic work that you may or may not get. It’s hard to make an actor understand that theatre is valuable and valid.
It’s always hard to get into any casting director’s office for anything. For Chicago Hope, we don’t use breakdowns very often because the pace of casting the show is just too fast. By the time I put a breakdown out and I get submissions, I don’t even have time to open them all and I’m still getting submissions after the episode is cast. Generally, I have maybe three or four days to cast an episode that may have fifteen or twenty people in it. A lot of those people come out of my head or Peggy or Rick’s head.
I do when we’re not actively casting something. Chicago Hope is ongoing so it’s hard to find the time. The people I’ll meet first are the ones who are recommended to me by producers or actors or agents I trust. I also go through my mail and keep stacks of pictures that interest me. There’s no formula, I just do generals when I can.
Get in a play that gets some good reviews. I don’t get to go to the theatre as much as I used to but I do make my staff go - and, between all of us, we see a fair amount. At our staff meetings, we talk about what people went to see and who was good and what the play was like. So even if I haven’t seen three plays in a week myself, between all of us, we usually manage that. If someone on my staff says an actor is good, I’ll trust their judgment and bring that actor in for something.
Well, unless I know the person, I like to see monologues. If the actor is right for something specific that we might be casting at the moment, I’ll have them read for that. I mean, obviously if it’s a lot of material, I’ll send them home for a night to study. If it’s something small, I might have them look it over for an hour and then read it for me.
I’ve seen many actors shoot themselves in the foot during auditions—hemming and hawing and apologizing about how they didn’t have time to look at the script. Or they say that they’re not a good reader. They’re apologizing and setting themselves up for failure before even opening their mouths to read. That’s not good. I mean, I interview for jobs too, and I can’t walk in apologizing and say, “You know, I really don’t have any good ideas for this script but I’d like you to hire me anyway,” or, “I promise I’ll be better when you hire me. I really know I can do it.” I realize there are people who are not good cold readers, but unless a casting director really knows your work and will go to bat for you with the director, your reading is all you’ve got. It’s imperative that you keep working on those auditioning skills and get better at it.
Auditioning for TV is different from film. TV producers tend to be looking more for performance, more for a result - and if you can’t produce it in the room, they’re less likely to hire you than film producers. In episodic television, they shoot eight pages in a day and they’re looking for something pretty close to what they’re going to get on the set, because they don’t have time for anything less. There is no real rehearsal. You hit your mark, you shoot. They need to know, in the audition, that you can get to that place or pretty close to it, whether you’re directed or not. Sometimes you get a director who doesn’t work with people in auditions for that reason. They just want to see you do it. They may give you an adjustment if you’re off track, but if you can’t get the emotion or tears or whatever, they’ll choose a person who can get to that place immediately. It’s hard. The director knows that there isn’t going to be time to rehearse or explain and casts accordingly. Some directors will work with people and they’ll be able to see through the nerves of an audition or know that it isn’t at performance level. But I find, more often than not, that they tend toward the people who don’t require too much of their time. It’s just more practical. Whereas in film, there’s rehearsal and a little more time. You may get to do twenty takes. You don’t ever get to do twenty takes in television.
Absolutely. There are times when I will bring someone in for a pre-read even if I know their work quite well. There might be something I know about the material that the actor doesn’t. Or maybe I’ve never seen them do this kind of role and, while I like their work, I’m not sure they can stretch to this other place and I need to see that. Or maybe I’m working with a director who’s very particular and I want to prepare the actor as best as I can. If I’m going to bring someone I already know in for a pre-read, I’m not doing it for my health. I have other things to do. And it can only help you. One of two things will happen. Either A) you will get a callback because you were right for the role, and in that pre-read you had a chance to ask those questions you might not be able to later - and you got a sense from me of what we’re looking for and how do the scenes. Then you get to go to the producers with a leg up. Or, B) I don’t give you a callback but I’ve seen you do good work and I will remember you for the next time. It’s not a wasted audition just because you didn’t get a callback. It’s my job to remember the people I’ve seen, to take notes on every actor I meet, and to call them in when there’s something they’re right for. One of those two things will happen and neither one of them are bad. All of that said, I try to pre-read as little as possible. Again, there isn’t time in television. Usually, I pre-read kids, people whose work I don’t know at all, or for very specific, unusual roles.
You don’t have to come on like gangbusters and you don’t have to be tap dancing. It’s about the work. Not everybody can come in with a mega-watt smile and crack the right joke as they’re sitting down and taking off their coat. Nor should they need to. Sometimes, when an actor walks in, he doesn’t even want to meet the people in the room. He’s ready to work. He’ll just say, “Hi,” and start. You can talk afterward. Sometimes the scene will require that; some actors just prefer it. As long as they’re not being rude, that’s fine. I think that more often than not, actors will sabotage themselves by trying to talk too much because they’re nervous and trying to make themselves comfortable in the room. So remember, when you come in, while you want to be at ease and you want to be comfortable, you don’t have to come in and entertain people, and try to make them like you, before you do the work.
I think actors need to take more responsibility for their careers as opposed to relying on agents, relying on the casting director’s opinion of them, or relying on past auditions. Taking responsibility also means coming to auditions prepared and ready to work. Until you have a job, your work is getting the job. It always surprises me how many people will come in who, it seems, haven’t really looked at the scene or even read it carefully. The lack of basic preparation sometimes just amazes me, but it happens more often than I would like. Taking responsibility also means keeping your instrument well oiled by taking classes or being in a play, and making sure you’re always working on yourself so you keep the wheels turning. It’s often said, and it’s true, that actors are like athletes. An athlete wouldn’t run a marathon or a race without having trained and prepared for it. The athlete’s job is to be physically fit and alert. It’s the same for an actor. Unless you keep working at it, you get flabby.
I want to end by saying that both Rick and I want to create a place where actors feel comfortable. Part of our job is to make actors feel free enough and safe enough to do what they need to do, so that they have the best possible shot of doing their strongest work.
Pagano Manwiller Casting
310.841.4360
3815 Hughes Ave. 4th Fl. Culver City, CA 90232