When Fashion and Activism Join Together

Gabi Gregg (left) and Nicolette Mason (right)

In a world of fashion and pop-culture media that projects only one vision of beauty and style, there are countless voices and identities left unrepresented. But when two fashion powerhouses came together to celebrate a community that has been underserved and underappreciated, something special happened. Premme was born.

by Grace Bonney

Premme is a new fashion brand that creates bold statement pieces for women sizes 12 to 30. Co-founders Gabi Gregg (better known as GabiFresh to her online fans) and Nicolette Mason met over ten years ago in an online community where fashion bloggers shared their outfits of the day. Connecting over their shared background in activism and a mutual desire to represent and include plus-size women in the fashion industry, they became fast friends. After launching successful collaborative capsule collections with brands like Swimsuitsforall, Target, and ModCloth, Gabi and Nicolette decided to start their own company so they could create without restrictions and design for an audience they knew intimately and better than most designers in the industry.

In 2016, Premme went live with an online collection that was an instant success. And while sales and media buzz were welcomed, what struck the new CEOs most was the feedback and connections they were forming with customers—and members of their community—who felt heard, seen, and appreciated. I sat down to talk with these smart, savvy, and incredibly plugged-in co-founders about how Premme came to be and how they’re shaking up the world of fashion—and setting an example for those to come.

How did you first meet each other?

nicolette: I remember the first time I saw Gabi was on a LiveJournal community called “What I Wore Today,” or WIWT. It was the first time I saw someone who had a body type more similar to mine than a lot of the other people in the community. We were the same age and I felt instantly drawn to her.

gabi: We were also together in another community called Fatshionista, which was the breeding ground for so many plus-size and body-positive activists today. A lot of us met there. It was one of the first internet communities dedicated to fat positivity, and it taught so many of us about what that meant. It wasn’t just about fashion, but it was fashion meets politics.

I remember reaching out to Nicolette and saying, “You should definitely post more photos. I love what you’re doing with your style, and we don’t see enough of this.” That’s the first interaction I remember having.

How long into your friendship did you start thinking about starting a business together?

nicolette: In 2009, we met for the first time in real life when Gabi put together the first-ever plus-size bloggers conference. But it wasn’t until 2012 that we both thought, “Hey, we should do this together.” It was a dream for both of us.

We’ve both collaborated with other brands, but our vision was so much bigger than what our partners would ever allow us to do. There were just so many limitations in terms of casting and the language that brands use or their size range. Even creatively, our vision was always stifled because other companies had their own ideas about what a plus-size woman does, how she dresses, or what she likes or wants. So we knew that the only way we could really, fully have control over what we wanted was to start something on our own.

Did you ever have any apprehension about working together as friends?

gabi: No. Not at all.

nicolette: There was never any hesitation. I think a big part of it is that we share so much ideologically and politically. We have differences in our styles, and aesthetics, but the things that we share are so much more important. I think it’s good to have a little bit of difference and disagreement in terms of style and being able to objectively create things together.

gabi: If Nicolette feels really strongly and I don’t, it opens my eyes to the fact that I don’t want to get so narrow-minded that I’m dressing or designing things only for myself. You want to have that other perspective.

We also both have equal amounts of experience in the industry, and that makes a huge difference. We’ve both been doing this for a decade. We both have market experience as editors. We both have been able to build roles within our community. And we also both come from a political background.

So what are your day-to-day roles at the company? Do you have separate roles?

nicolette: We are really good complements to each other and things have worked themselves out organically. I pay all of our contractors and bills from our shared account. Gabi is here in Los Angeles more, so she goes to more of our fittings. But it’s not a formal role definition. We really do share all of our responsibilities, and then, on any given day, we’re able to balance out our individual needs.

gabi: There are so many hats to be worn, especially with a start-up. We’re really small, and there are so many things that need to be done that we both do everything we can, and then it comes down to who has the time that day. We hope as we grow we can bring on more staff members and delegate more easily. But so far I feel like we’re both good at everything we’ve come across.

nicolette: For the last eight years, Gabi and I have been running our own one-person businesses, and so we’ve had to play all of those roles of administrator, of shipper. Every single thing that we’ve had to do to run our own businesses as consultants and contractors and market editors has been as individuals. It’s very natural for us to go from that to doing a bit of everything at Premme.

What was the most valuable lesson you learned from previous work that you’ve brought with you to Premme?

nicolette: I think one of the biggest problems for a lot of brands is that they’re so stifled by their assumptions about the customer rather than talking to the customer. What has made both Gabi and me so successful in a lot of ways is that we’re so connected to our peers, this market and consumer base. Also, we are this consumer, so it’s an organic and natural thing for us to be having those conversations and getting really honest feedback. We both have our ears close to the ground in terms of what’s happening and what the trends are. I think it’s a big mistake when companies view themselves as authorities on communities they’re not intimately connected to.

gabi: So many of the brands getting into plus-size fashion are seeing the plus-size customer, especially the confident, stylish plus-size customer, as a trend or a fad. They’re trying to figure out a way to insert themselves into this market to capitalize on a hashtag, as opposed to coming from the community itself. We know the language because we live the language.

Things like sizing are really important to us. We wanted to come out of the gate doing sizes up to a 30. Because we’re starting fresh, we get to decide who we want our customer to be. We want her to be the fashion-forward, risk-taking girl. If she’s not that girl yet, we want to encourage those people to take risks. We want to be the brand that’s standing out and saying, “We want to push the boundaries, we don’t want to play by the rules.”

1st row (l to r): @alexmichaelmay, @beautymarked_illy and @kellyaugustineb by @lydiahudgens (2nd and 3rd picture), @thevintagehoneybee, @foreign_curves, @gessflyy by @gossettphotography, @phat_girl_phresh;

2nd row (l to r): @lydiahudgens (1st and 2nd picture), @moorestylemorebeauty, @jennifer.buckingham, @chiefofstyle by @lyvellg, @reztothecity, @nataliemeansnice;

3rd row (l to r): @lydiahudgens (1st and 2nd picture), @hardknockblythe, @itsmekellieb by @lydiahudgens, @roseybeeme by @courtneyjoyphotography (5th and 6th picture), @beautymarked_illy and @thisisjessicatorres by @lydiahudgens (7th and 8th picture);

4th row (l to r): @littlelimedress, @soshenell by @tahn_jah, @theericalauren, @kellyaugustineb, @ushshi by @lydiahudgens, @premme.us, @alexmichaelmay.

Why do you think established or older brands have struggled to support and celebrate this customer?

gabi: I think a lot of brands have a hard time because they’re trying to be everything to everyone. They see the plus-size customer as one customer. But we are just like everyone else. Some of us will want something more modest and some will want bolder statement pieces.

So this idea that one brand can cater to everyone above a certain size is limiting. Things get watered down when you try to please everyone. So instead of imagining all plus-size customers as having the same style, they need to have a vision and embrace that it will work for some, but not all.

How long did that process take you to get the business up and running from an idea to products in packages being mailed out?

nicolette: From the time that Gabi and I said, “Let’s do this together,” to when we actually hit the market, it was about three and a half years. We had a lot of false starts. We had falling-outs with other business partners. In the beginning, when we were seeking funding, we had a really hard time even getting people to take us seriously because we were two women who didn’t have “traditional business experience.” We are two plus-size women who, in so many ways, are not traditional in the white, patriarchal, heteronormative way. So people wouldn’t even give us face time. We had to bring in our management company, Digital Brand Architects. They started a new division devoted to products and licensing, and they came in as a partner to Premme. Then people started taking us a little bit more seriously.

Starting a business from the ground up is really, really hard. People don’t talk about that openly enough. We finally found a great operations partner and manufacturer to handle manufacturing, technical design, distribution and fulfillment, and customer service. Which has been really helpful. But I think people see that success that we’ve had so far and the enthusiasm about Premme and think we’re raking it in. But this is still a start-up. We’re not paying ourselves a single dollar right now. It’s going to be a while until we’re able to grow our company and bring in staff, but we’re committed to doing that because this is such a passion for us. It’s also why we’re maintaining so many other sides of our businesses right now, so that we can continue to build on this dream and invest back into it as much as we can.

How do you guys take care of yourselves when starting a business can be all-consuming?

nicolette: Honestly, it’s been a really big struggle. We’ve both tried to express that a little bit online so people understand it isn’t all easy. Self-care is really hard right now. Gabi and I both have autoimmune issues, so our health is a priority and it needs to be a priority. We both struggle to make time for ourselves and to take care of ourselves, but we’re trying our best.

gabi: I have to force it because otherwise it won’t get prioritized. I live with mental illness as well, so between physical illness and mental illness, the amount of stress on someone who’s trying to run a new business is intense, especially when it’s not their only job.

I love Premme, and I want it to be successful, but nothing’s more important than living, so I’m going to prioritize that.

So I try to incorporate things like baths and listening to podcasts into my life to calm down a little bit and de-stress. But it’s never-ending because the next morning you wake up and you have to do it all over again.

What do your support systems look like?

gabi: My biggest support is my therapist. I wish I could go more than once a week because I look forward to it every week. I’m a really private person, so she’s the one person whom I feel comfortable really opening up to. I’m lucky to have friends and family in LA, so that’s really nice. But, generally speaking, she’s my go-to for the deeper-seated issues.

nicolette: My friends and family have been my biggest supports, and of course Gabi. We spend so much time together that sometimes the only alone time we have is with each other, so we share a lot of these self-support times together.

gabi: A lot of our stresses come from our jobs, and the only person who can really understand how stressful that is is Nicolette. She’s going to be the first person I call because she gets it.

nicolette: There are also moments where one of us is frustrated and the other one will say, “It’s okay. This is going to work out. We have a plan.” I feel so grateful that we have each other in this process because there have been so many tough spots that if we were doing this alone, either of us would’ve given up. So to have the other to cheerlead and support and rally with has been such an enormous gift to this whole endeavor.

Do you keep a circle of other business owners that you work with and get support from?

gabi: A lot of our friends are entrepreneurs, so that’s huge. I didn’t come from a family or a place where there were a lot of successful businesspeople. That wasn’t in my world. My mom’s a teacher. My dad’s an artist. So I didn’t know entrepreneurs existed besides Mark Cuban or whoever else was on Shark Tank. I didn’t know what that looked like. But I’m lucky that I’ve made so many friends my age that are also starting their own businesses. So those are the people I lean on and look to for inspiration.

nicolette: It’s been really important for us that we don’t really view other people as competition, but rather as a part of a community that we want to grow together. I think having that shift in mind-set has been really, really important for us in building support systems and in building networks of entrepreneurs whom we get to work with because we want everyone to succeed together. It’s all shine theory. If I shine, you shine, and there’s so much room for all of us to grow and succeed at the same time.

What has been the hardest part about starting this business that you didn’t expect?

gabi: Sales are the hardest. You have a great idea, you’re so excited about it, and then reality hits when the site goes live. It doesn’t sell itself, no matter how many fans you have. Ultimately you have to make things that people actually buy. We can’t just make them because we love them. So that’s changing a bit of how I see our business. That, for me, has been the hardest lesson, just to realize, okay, it’s not just a passion project. It has to make money, too.

What’s been one of the best things that’s maybe surprised you, that you didn’t expect to feel?

nicolette: I think just seeing the immediate enthusiasm and support of our community and how excited people are to wear the clothes and to get them in the mail. People are posting on Instagram as soon as they receive their package and they’re so excited to participate in it. Premme has also been mentioned alongside brands that have been around for decades as industry leaders. So for us to be seen as peers of brands that have literally decades of experience and millions of dollars in support is really incredible and affirming. We just want to exceed those expectations and keep growing, being the best that we can.

How are you integrating social media feedback into your business?

nicolette: The enthusiasm around our striped jumpsuit that we launched with is a great example. The response was so incredible that we decided to keep the style going with more colors. We post things on Instagram Stories to see what people want to see made or what additions they want to existing pieces. That’s such valuable and immediate feedback.

gabi: We’re both really involved in Premme’s social media as customer service, too. We’re answering DMs. We’re in the comments. We are there seeing what people are saying. If they have feedback, good or bad, we want to respond to it and take it into our next meeting and say, “Okay, people are saying this arm doesn’t fit right. What can we do to make sure this doesn’t happen next time?”

What effect do you hope Premme will have on the fashion community as a whole?

nicolette: This might be controversial, but I don’t think every brand should get in to the plus-size market just to do it. I think it has to be organic and not just about adding on to their sizes but for them to actually be thoughtful about the way they do it, to use plus-size fit models and grade off of those sizes instead of just adding inches to a size 6. So I would hope that any brand that wants to grow into this market will be committed to doing it right and not treating it as an afterthought or an add-on.

We deserve to have more and better options. Part of the reason we started Premme was because there are only about five places that a fashion-forward young person who fits above a size 12 can shop. So I really welcome any brand that wants to invest in this market, but I hope they will do it well and with respect.

gabi: We’ve heard for our entire careers that plus-size women don’t want stylish clothing and that it won’t sell. But we are going against that because we believe it needs to be done—and done well.

We hope that if we show people how to do it right, from the ground up, that we can prove that this community can be a powerful force in the buying community. I hope that along with Premme, and brands like ASOS and Eloquii, some of the old-school straight-size brands will pay attention and invest in designing for more people.

What’s your dream expansion for your business if you got the funding, growth, and sales that you wanted? Where do you see this growing?

nicolette: Our vision has always been pretty conservative. We want to grow organically and slowly and allow time to get everything right. We want to be a destination for plus-size shoppers. When someone has a special event or wants just really cool clothes to fill out their wardrobe, we want Premme to be the first place they go. Down the line we’d love to do accessories: lingerie, shoes, jewelry. Bridal is even a place that we’ve thought about. Our community needs accessible, cool bridal gowns. There are so many opportunities for growth in this market that it’s kind of limitless, but we don’t want to grow too fast, too soon.

You’ve both talked about the idea of body positive sometimes being synonymous with plus-size bodies being sexualized and how to counteract that but still include that as an option. How do you handle that when you’re dealing with styling and models?

nicolette: That’s something that’s always been an either/or. You’re either hypersexualized or you’re a completely nonsexual object because how could you possibly be a sexual object? There haven’t been options to exist as both or as in-between or any of that. So we’re trying to provide as many options as possible.

It sometimes feels like there’s this pressure to either be super sexy and if you’re not, you’re not body positive enough. But you don’t have to participate in hypersexualization in order to love yourself. You can love your body and love who you are and choose how to dress yourself. That’s really the whole crux of it for me, that people should just have the choice to dress how they want.

gabi: We want to give people the option to talk about style first. That’s what Premme is about. Fashion first. Yes, we do have some sexy pieces, and that’s great, but it’s not about dressing only to have sex appeal or to be sexually attractive. It’s about what’s in and what’s trending. Is it oversize? Cool. That’s awesome. We can wear oversize, shapeless stuff, too. It’s not about hiding. It’s just about what’s cute. There’s no reason a thin woman can wear an oversize, shapeless sack and I can’t. There’s a difference between doing it because you want to hide and doing it because it’s stylish and cool.

What do you want younger fans and customers to know as they look to you for guidance and as role models?

nicolette: I think it’s important for people to recognize that every single person has something they’re insecure about. Even the people who others perceive as perfect and having it all—they are struggling with something. People think that about us, that our lives are perfect, and they’re not. We have bad days in terms of body image. We have bad days in terms of mental health. We have just bad days. Nothing is as perfect as it looks from the outside for anybody. So to recognize that we all have our struggles and it’s okay to have those struggles and we’ll all get through them is a really, really important thing for me.

What’s your favorite thing about your business partner, and why are you so thankful for that part of them?

nicolette: I know I can be so tremendously honest with Gabi, and I can tell her anything, whether it’s about each other or about personal lives or business. I can trust her with anything and also trust myself to be honest with her.

gabi: I have to say transparency and honesty. I feel like so many business partners aren’t that way with each other. But we’re honest and open with each other and I’m so grateful that I can be that way with Nicolette and she doesn’t make me feel bad about it.

nicolette: We know each other’s histories inside and out and we deeply appreciate each other for who we are.