8
“I’M DYING FOR SOMETHING SO STUPID!”
William Skidmore had been very cooperative with authorities during his questioning, but with Jesse Rugge, it was more like pulling teeth without an anesthetic. Santa Barbara sheriff ’s office sergeant Ken Reinstadler and detective Mike West spoke with Rugge in an interrogation room, and West said, “Ken is my sergeant. We just wanna talk about some activity that’s been goin’ on here in Santa Barbara during the past two weeks. That’s the reason we’re here. When deputies contacted you a little while ago, what did they tell you?”
Rugge answered, “When they tackled me, I didn’t know what was goin’ on. It freaked the hell out of me. I’m shaken up.”
West wanted to know if Rugge worked or went to school, and Rugge answered, “I’m pretty much just waiting for school to come around. I scored myself a DUI here actually, that’s why I’m staying up here right now. If I wasn’t, I’d be livin’ with my mom.”
West wondered if Rugge had to live in Santa Barbara because of the DUI, and Rugge answered, “No, I was working with my uncle as an electrician and that fell through because my car kind of broke down. I got it fixed up and went to drive three of my buddies home, and got pulled over. I got a DUI, but didn’t pay the fine, and just did the jail time, and ever since, I’ve been trying to find work right up here. I’ve been looking for landscaping or gardening. Back in the day I was working at a gas station, and stuff like that.”
West asked Rugge where he had been during the day of Sunday, August 6, and Rugge replied, “I was over at my buddy Ricky Hoeflinger’s house. And my friend Adam drove me home.” Asked if he had seen anything in the news about the murder of Nick Markowitz, Rugge responded that he had seen something in the Santa Barbara newspaper. At that point Detective West said that he was going to Mirandize Rugge. He asked him if he knew what that meant.
Rugge said that he didn’t. “I’m totally spaced. I’m just freaked out. I’m blank right now, sir.”
West went ahead and gave Rugge the Miranda warning, and asked him if he understood what he had been read. Rugge replied, “Yes, sir.” Then Rugge added, “I’m spooked out how you guys just came upon me on this. I mean, where did this come from, and how did this happen?”
Reinstadler jumped in and said, “We’re questioning you in relation to your participation or being a witness in a homicide.”
Once again Rugge wanted to know how the police had gotten their information, but Reinstadler answered, “Do you want to talk to us, yes or no? We can’t talk to you unless you waive your rights. And we can’t ask you questions. You can stop answering anytime you want.”
“Wait. If I waive my rights, what happens then?”
“We’re gonna ask questions of you.”
“Do I go home or anything like that?”
“No, sir. You are under arrest.”
“I’m under arrest?”
West replied, “You’ve been arrested, and we would like to talk to you about this homicide.”
Rugge finally said it was okay to go ahead and question him, and he signed the waiver of his rights to ask for a lawyer. After it was signed, Rugge was asked if he’d been arrested before, and he said he had been for the DUI. Then West asked him if he had any idea of why they wanted to talk to him, and Rugge replied that he had no idea.
West began, “This young man, well, the body was found up in the hills of Santa Barbara, off of Highway 154. His name was Nicholas Markowitz. Do you recognize the name?”
“Yeah, I’ve heard of his older brother down there, where I used to live.”
“Did you go to school with Ben?”
“No, just knew him through parties and things. Through the Valley scene.”
“Okay, Nick was found up here. Do you know anything about this?”
“No, sir.”
“But you said you saw it in the newspaper?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Did you read the article?”
“Not really. I just looked at it and just briefly—well, just tripped out.”
“What do you mean by ‘tripped out’?”
“I was surprised. I just looked at it, and it said ‘Woodland Hills.’ It’s from the same area as me.”
“Have you been down to that area recently? Is that where your mother lives?”
“Yeah. I just came back from there, actually. Came back Sunday during the daytime. I came from a wedding.”
“Did you ever know Ben to come up here to Santa Barbara? Why do you think Nick would be up here in Santa Barbara?”
“Go figure. I don’t know.”
West asked what Rugge had been doing all summer long, since he hadn’t been going to school or working very much. Rugge answered, “Well, I’ve been transferring kinda like from my mom’s to my dad’s place. Kind of hanging out. Not doing anything. Kind of lopping it. Working around the house with my dad, and the front yard or whatever. I mean, you guys scared the hell out of me. I thought you guys were someone like . . .” He didn’t finish the rest of sentence but laughed nervously instead.
West wanted to know who Rugge hung around with in the Santa Barbara area, and he said his friends were John and Graham. The name Graham rang a bell with West, and he said, “Graham who? What’s Graham’s last name?”
“I don’t know Graham’s last name. I just met him through a buddy of mine from up here.”
“And John’s last name?”
“Ziegler. Johnny Ziegler. Occasionally I just talk to him every once in a while. I don’t associate with a bunch of kids up here.”
“Okay. So when you go down to L.A.?”
“I hang out sometimes over there at a house.”
“Are you dating anyone now? Hanging out with any girls?”
Rugge laughed and said, “Nope. Striking out pretty much right now.”
Reinstadler chimed in. “You have no female acquaintances at all?”
“Uh, a girl named Kelly. I don’t know her last name. I just met her through my friend Graham. She has blond hair. Very short.”
“You don’t know Kelly’s last name?”
“No, sir. I do not, sir.”
“You met her through Graham?”
“Yeah. I stopped going to party scenes when I was, like, nineteen. I stopped doing that shit. All there is, is chaos, and no point in it. So I’ve pretty much just been hanging over at my mom’s house. Kinda around the neighborhood.”
West wanted to know if Rugge had been contacting people he knew from his high-school days, and Rugge said that he hadn’t done that very much. Then he added, “All of them are just doing their own things. Everyone grew apart. You know, just slouchin’.”
West asked why Rugge knew Ben Markowitz, and Rugge said he knew him from the party scenes that he used to attend. Asked if he’d talked to Ben at those parties, Rugge answered, “I just ran into him. I think he knows who I am. I met him through a buddy named Johnny down there.”
“A different Johnny? Not John Ziegler?”
“No, a different Johnny, but I don’t know his last name, either.”
West then asked Rugge to name off as many people as he could from his days in West Hills, and Rugge rattled off some first names: “Loren, Rick, James, Bear, Chris, Justin, Andy, Rebecca, Courtney, Jason and Jeremy.” They were all people around his age.
West said, “Did you say Jesse?”
“No, Jason,” Rugge replied nervously.
Reinstadler jumped in. “Let’s rephrase that question. Do you know any Jesses?”
“Jesse? Um.”
Reinstadler added, “And keep in mind, you’re not sitting there because we’re stupid.”
Rugge responded, “Yeah, but I know a bunch of kids, dude.”
“Tell us about Jesse.”
“About Jesse? What?”
“About Jesse from West Hills.”
“I used to play baseball with this kid named Jesse.”
“What’s Jesse’s last name?”
Rugge lied and said, “I don’t know Jesse’s last name.”
West broke in. “What does this Jesse do now?”
Rugge replied, “I think he’s working, like, for a wood floor company. I don’t know what he’s doing right now. I haven’t seen him in a while.”
“What does he look like?”
“I don’t know. He had long hair. I think.”
“A white guy?”
“No, brownish.”
“You mean Hispanic?”
“No, not really. I mean tan. I haven’t seen him for a while—like, probably a month and a half ago,” Rugge lied.
West wanted to know how many years Rugge had known this Jesse person, and Rugge replied that he had played baseball with him on a Little League team when they were young. West jumped Rugge on the fact that he’d played on a team with this Jesse person and that he’d seen him only a month previously, and yet, “You don’t remember his last name? Do you realize how that sounds?”
“Well, it sounds awkward, but you guys puttin’me in this situation where it’s like you’re just asking me all these questions where I don’t even get—”
“I’m just asking you names of people and associates.”
“Look, I know the kid from playing baseball when we were younger. That’s the only way I know the guy. I have no association. I’ve probably seen him by running into him on the streets or at a party. That’s the only thing I have, all right!”
“Okay, okay! Well, you’re obviously nervous about why you’re here. And I told you, we’re investigating a homicide.”
“I’m freaking out by this point!”
“I’ll ask you the freakiest question in the world. Did you have anything to do with this?”
“No, sir.”
“Anything at all. I mean, I’m not asking you necessarily if you killed the kid. I’m just asking if you had anything to do with it.”
“No.”
“Did you have knowledge of it? How it happened? How it was set up?”
“Where did you get that idea? I don’t get why you guys are even asking me this! This is ridiculous, sir!”
“I’m trying to see how sure you are of your answers and the fact that you don’t know too many last names. Let’s say you took a polygraph test. Would you be willing to take a polygraph test? We can’t use that against you in court.”
“I guess . . . but I’m telling you the truth. I mean, this is ridiculous!”
Reinstadler said, “We have talked to a lot of people. And we know what happened.”
Rugge responded, “What happened?”
“You know what happened! Look, we don’t know what your involvement was in this, all right. I don’t think you’re a stone-cold killer. I think you got into something that’s gonna haunt you for a long time. I understand that. We all make mistakes. Do you understand where I’m coming from? I made a bunch of them in my life. Sometimes we make mistakes ’cause we drink too much. Sometimes we make mistakes ’cause we treat our wives or girlfriends bad. Sometimes we make mistakes by hanging around people we shouldn’t. I think you hung around and got involved with somebody that walked down that path. It got awful black and dark and something happened. Maybe you were told it wouldn’t happen, and now it’s our job to piece the puzzle together. Of course, we’re not gonna tell you everything we know, because obviously we’ll have to prove it in court. But this is your opportunity.”
Rugge was still claiming that he didn’t know anything about what either Detectives West or Reinstadler were talking about. So Reinstadler got Rugge speaking about Fiesta Week in Santa Barbara, instead. Rugge admitted that he had attended events on De La Guerra Street, and that he had been there with his friend Will, cousin Autumn and her boyfriend. Rugge said he had hung out there with the others until midnight and then had gone home.
West asked him if he went out on the evening of August 5 and Rugge answered, “I think I probably went out around eight P.M. Something like that. I walked to upper State Street and took the bus all the way down. I met up with Graham later on that night, I think. I did meet up with Graham. Nah, I didn’t even see Graham. Excuse me.”
“We’re talking about Fiesta night, the fifth.” (This was when Rugge had been visited by Jesse Hollywood, who wanted to recruit him to break out windows at the Markowitz residence.)
“I was up there and just hung around State Street and came home and pretty much went to bed. I didn’t really do anything, ’cause I don’t really have that many friends up here. I just know a coupla kids.”
“Are you saying you didn’t see Graham then?”
“I did not.”
“Did anyone come over to your house on Saturday the fifth?”
“No.”
West and Rugge went around and around about whether Rugge’s parents were home on August 5 and how long Rugge stayed at the residence that day. His stories kept changing as to times he was at home and when his dad and stepmom had been there. And as far as Sunday the sixth went, he’d stayed home all day long and no one had come over to his house. Asked if he had gone down to the Los Angeles region at all around that time, Rugge lied and said, “I went Tuesday over to my mom’s house, and pretty much hung out there all day. I did some chores for her, went over to my friend Jack’s house and hung out over there. Just went swimming and then came back to my house. I spent the whole time there, pretty much three days. And then my sister came up with me and with my niece.”
West got back to the article in the newspaper, and Rugge’s stories kept changing on that as well. He said that he hadn’t read it, or that he had read part of it, and finally, “I don’t really read newspapers. I just briefly go through them when I’m pretty much on the pot.”
West asked, “So you know anything about how he was killed?”
“No, I do not.”
“Have you ever had a gun?”
“No, sir.”
“Have you ever used a gun?”
“No, sir.”
“Have you ever seen a gun?”
“Yeah. I’ve seen a gun.”
“What do you know about guns?”
“Shit. Ah. My brother-in-law and my dad had twenty-twos.”
“Is there any ammunition in your house?”
“Nope. It’s nothing like that, sir. My dad’s never been like that. We’ve never been that type, you know.”
Reinstadler wanted to know if Rugge’s dad, stepmom or mom knew of Rugge’s friends down in the Valley. He answered, “Oh, a little bit. They don’t really like my friend Ricky.”
“Do they like Jesse?”
“Jesse—well, they always had no problem with him and the guys I played baseball with when I was a younger kid.”
Reinstadler asked, “Now, Jesse that you played baseball with. It’s Jesse Hollywood, right?”
“Probably. I think so.”
“He’s the same Jesse Hollywood that both your stepmom and father saw at your house that weekend, right?” (The lieutenant was referring to August 5.)
“I don’t know. I doubt that.”
“Your mom and dad are sitting out in our lobby. We’re serving a search warrant at your house. That’s why the guys tackled you there on the three-yard line. We’ve been talking to your dad and stepmom for about an hour and a half. They make it real clear that Jesse Hollywood was up that weekend. You know, the guy you really don’t know. You’re thinking now, aren’t you?”
Rugge replied, “What am I thinking?”
“I think you’re thinking about should you tell us the truth or not.”
“I have no clue what I’m supposed to do here. I mean, go to jail for the rest of my life. That’s where I’m headed!”
Reinstadler responded, “Hey, we’re not saying that!”
“Well, that’s the way it’s lookin’ to me. I’m getting accused of something I did not do!”
“Then, buddy, you’d better start talkin’ to us!”
“Why? ’Cause I don’t have no idea what you’re talking about.”
“You don’t have any idea? No idea at all? All the people that you’ve been with during that period of time? Do you have any idea that they wouldn’t talk to us and tell us what happened?”
“Well, you obviously know as much as I do.”
“We know a little.”
Rugge replied, “Why don’t you brief me?”
Reinstadler answered with disgust, “No. I’m not gonna tell you! I want you to tell me, ’cause that way I know that you are telling the truth. You’ve already started off a little rocky here.”
Rugge replied, “Obviously.”
“You tell me that there’s this Jesse baseball player, who you don’t really know, and I’m telling you he was with you that weekend. You need to start tellin’ the truth. We know about Jesse. We know about what happened Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. We know you were with them, and they burned ya.”
“Who?”
“I’m not gonna tell ya! You’re gonna tell me! Show me that you want to tell me the truth. We know how everything happened. We also know that you’re supposed to be upset over this. So maybe things didn’t happen the way you wanted them to happen.”
West chimed in, “What if somebody told us that they saw you with Nick Markowitz? How do you explain that? Are you saying that you not only knew Ben, but you really know Nick, too?”
“I don’t know.”
Reinstadler said, “Is there some reason why you would be with Nick other than having something to do with his death?”
West added, “If so, please explain to us, because we could clear this all up, but somebody saw you with Nick. What would be the reason?”
Rugge replied, “I don’t know why. I don’t know why, sir. I don’t get this at all, right now!”
Reinstadler retorted, “I’ll go you one further, okay. I’ll ask you if anything unusual happened, and if you went to places, maybe motels, maybe you wouldn’t normally go to, between that Sunday of Fiesta and, let’s say, Wednesday. Would that help you remember anything? I would like to give you the opportunity to let us know what happened so that someone will think that Jesse (Rugge) isn’t a cold-blooded killer. Jesse, like I told you before, you got caught up into something you didn’t think would turn out this way. I know this isn’t easy to talk about and there’s a lot of unknown factors out there. You’re worried about your future.”
Rugge responded, “Whatever. I’m dead, no matter what, so I don’t get what you’re saying. I’m sitting here, and I’m goin’ to jail. I’m goin’ to jail for about six, seven or eight years. I’m seeing death, no matter what.”
Reinstadler asked, “Why do you say that?”
“Because this is bullshit, man!”
“Did you pull the trigger?”
“No. I don’t know what you’re talking about.”
“You do know what we’re talking about! You’re not talking like some guy who doesn’t know what we’re talking about. I’m asking you, did you pull the trigger or did somebody else? I think somebody else is responsible for this, and I hate to see you make a bad decision.”
Rugge replied, “I guarantee you, if you think Jesse Hollywood and those guys are the ones you’re thinkin’ about, I doubt it’s him.”
“Well, the bottom line is you know who it is. Jesse is involved. He’s involved up to here, okay. Other people can make bad decisions besides yourself and Jesse. Other people are comin’ from different places than you are. Maybe you didn’t know what was going to happen. Maybe you thought this was to scare somebody and it turned into something else. Between this man (West) and myself, we have about fifty-five years as cops. We’ve seen it all. We work homicides. It’s never a clear-cut thing. A lot of mistakes are made, and all we’re trying to say is, we took a puzzle, we took a couple of pieces out, but you can still see the puzzle. We have all that, and it’s lookin’ to us like you’re definitely involved. In fact, buddy, you were around when it happened. You were there!”
“No, I wasn’t.”
“You were right there, Jesse!”
“I don’t know what people have been telling you, sir.”
“Tell us about the Lemon Tree, then.”
“Who was at the Lemon Tree?”
Reinstadler laughed and said, “I know you were at the Lemon Tree.”
“Do ya?”
“Yeah. I also know that you were there renting a room, and I can prove it. People are gonna pick out pictures I have and you’re one of them. And guess who one of the pictures is of?”
“Who?”
“The dead guy. Now, isn’t that a coincidence? Don’t you think that’s a coincidence, Jess? I mean, what would you think?”
“It’s some shit!”
West jumped in and said, “What I see is that you’re a little scared. And that’s okay.”
Rugge laughed nervously at that.
“I know that Jesse Hollywood is a dangerous guy. He’s a dangerous guy, isn’t he?”
“I don’t know what you’re talking about. Jesse Hollywood is not a dangerous guy.”
“Are you afraid of what Jesse Hollywood is gonna do to you?”
“No. I’m afraid of what jail’s gonna do to me, sir. That’s one fuckin’ thing I’m scared about!”
“Well, we can make sure that Jesse Hollywood is not going to see you.”
“You don’t understand. That’s not the point. I’m going away for a very long time. I’m gonna get hurt inside there, man. I’m light, man.”
Reinstadler asked, “Who do you think determines how long you need to stay inside there?”
Rugge answered, “You guys do.”
Reinstadler laughed and replied, “Nah. You think cops determine that? Who are the guys that say you have X amount of years?”
“A judge.”
“Exactly.”
Rugge replied, “Still, no matter what, I’m goin’ to jail, because somehow I’m a part of this because I know people.”
“No. You’re a part of this because you went along with the program. I personally believe getting the story right.”
“Can I have a cigarette?”
“No. Sorry. This is important. You were with Nick for a couple of days. People saw you. People will testify about that. You’ve made comments to people about what happened.”
“To who? Never mind.”
Reinstadler said in disgust, “We’re right back to where we were. Don’t blink your eyes. You know I’m right. If you truly are afraid of just going to jail, a judge will look at you and see what kind of a person you are, and did you or not show remorse.”
“I have nothin’ goin’ in my life you can look at. I look like a burn to everyone else.”
“A couple of thousand bucks looked pretty good there, didn’t it?”
Rugge was surprised by that comment and answered, “What couple of thousand bucks?”
“I know you got offered a couple of thousand bucks.”
“I didn’t get any money!”
“I’m not saying you did, but you got offered it, because some people have a lot of money. They’ve got a lot of juice. Sell enough weed and you can have all the money in the world, or at least it seems that way.”
West added, “It was supposed to be just to teach this guy a lesson, and it all went bad. And all of a sudden you found yourself kind of being forced into this, didn’t you? ’Cause all of a sudden, Jesse Hollywood was making you do this, and you were starting to realize that things are getting out of hand. Because if it’s not that, then the only thing we can assume is you’re a cold-blooded killer. So which is it? Are you a cold-blooded killer of a fifteen-year-old young man, or did you get caught up in something that seemed so simple and then just very quickly got very dangerous?”
Reinstadler reminded, “The judge won’t know anything but that you were right there.”
Rugge replied, “Yep. So he’s gonna stick me.”
“He’s gonna stick all of you, bro! He’s not just gonna stick you. He’s gonna stick all of you for the exact same thing!”
“For what?”
“How about capital murder and torture?”
“Torture?”
“Capital murder, torture, kidnapping. Yeah. Let me tell ya. If somebody gets, and I’m not gonna tell you how, but he gets bound up and he gets shot nine times with an automatic weapon in his own grave. I can tell right now you’re not a cold-blooded killer. But you know who is, Jess, and all we’re asking is for your help to show a judge that you were not that person.”
“I’m not a killer! I don’t know who was.”
“You do. I know who was in the car. I know where you went. I know what you brought, and unless you start telling us how it went down, it won’t matter who pulled the trigger. Because of your silence, a jury will think you did it.”
“I’ll be the only person sitting there.”
“No, you won’t!”
“Who else is gonna be sitting there? So it makes me look like I’m a rat. I get my ass stabbed in jail, no matter what.”
Reinstadler said, “I thought you were just afraid of jail.” “I am afraid of jail.”
“You’re not afraid of Jesse Hollywood?”
“No.”
“You’re not afraid of Ryan?”
“Who’s that?”
“Yeah, right! You didn’t know him, either.”
West chimed in, “You don’t have to be a rat. Just tell us what you did. The others will remember your last name.”
Rugge piped up, “That kid Adam, the guy you arrested me with, he had nothing to do with this.”
Reinstadler said, “We sort of know that, but we’re talking to him to see what you talked to him about.”
“Nothing.”
“Nothing, huh. I guess we’ll find out. Can we go day by day, Jess? You be honest with us and tell us just what happened. Starting with the day that Jesse Hollywood came up and talked about this crap and you got sucked into it.”
West said, “It will eat away at you, Jess, until you get it out.”
Reinstadler added, “It’s not going to get any better. The only way it can get better is if a judge can at least see that you are willing to cooperate enough to tell us what happened.”
Rugge was still very worried, however, and replied, “I have to stand there in front of a judge and jury and I have to sit there and look at everyone across the courtroom. And you know what, all I did was hold the kid. Didn’t hurt him. Acted like his best friend. That’s all. I didn’t do anything, all right!”
West said, “That’s something good.”
Reinstadler asked, “He (Nick) didn’t see it coming?”
Rugge answered, “No one, I think, knew anything.”
“Well, you knew a bunch of bullshit, right? You were handed a line.”
Rugge replied, “Ben Markowitz is a . . . I just don’t know the whole situation. I don’t know. I’m freakin’ out.”
West declared, “If you were holding Nick, maybe that helped him some to know that somebody was there. What did you do? Can you tell us?”
“Nothing. I didn’t do anything to him.”
Reinstadler asked, “Ben Markowitz is a what?”
Rugge replied, “Ben Markowitz is a dead guy!”
The detectives got nowhere with questioning about Ben, so Reinstadler asked about Nick again. “What did Nick think was happening?”
“I don’t know.”
“Come on, Jess. I think he went along with the program to a point. Ben’s a shithead, right? Everybody knows that. I mean, you don’t understand that we just spent the last three days in the Valley. We talked to more kids, more stoners, than I’ve met in a lifetime. I’ve talked to Ben Markowitz. That’s what this was all about, right?”
“I don’t know. I was never briefed with anything.”
“Tell me what Jesse Hollywood told you when he came up and talked to you and got you to go with him.”
“Go where?”
“Ah, come on, Jesse! This is getting to be a little ridiculous! You’re playing their game with us every time you get backed into a corner. You know the truth. The more you play like you don’t know about anything, the more it looks like you know about everything. Because we can prove it. We can prove you were there. You need to fill in certain details about how the murder happened. That’s the only thing we’re asking for you to help us with. You acknowledged that you held Nick. I know Nick was walking around doing chores. What was up with that? Why did you ask him to do that?”
Rugge replied, “He was helping me out. I was doin’ the stairs. I didn’t hurt him. I said, ‘I got the top of the stairs, you’ve got the bottom of the stairs.’ He said all right. I did not hurt that kid. You gotta get that point!”
Reinstadler replied, “Jesse, then you need to tell us who did. I need to hear it from you, because if you don’t, it doesn’t matter.”
Rugge still hemmed and hawed and worried that he would be sitting in jail with the others who had been involved. Reinstadler responded that Rugge would not be in any position of danger in the county jail. Rugge replied, “That isn’t the point. There are people in other places, where everyone knows.”
And then Rugge said something that would become hotly contested later on in proceedings: “I’d like to have an attorney at this point. I don’t know who I’m gonna pay for anything like that. I don’t know what’s goin’ on.”
West told him that he had the right to an attorney, and Rugge added, “I’m goin’ down the tubes, no matter what! You guys know as much as I do.”
For whatever reason Rugge kept on talking rather than remaining silent, which he also had the right to do. He said, “I’m fuckin’ scared, dude! Where am I going to be sitting when I go to jail? Where? L.A. County? I’d get ripped up there in a second.”
West replied that he understood Rugge’s fears and that he would be protected.
Rugge asked, “By who?”
Reinstadler chimed in and said, “Do you wanna talk to us? You just asked for an attorney. The law says we have to stop talking to you.” Then Reinstadler added, “I get the impression you wanna talk.”
Rugge said, “I do wanna talk. I don’t want to be the person—”
Reinstadler cut in. “So, are you asking for us to continue to talk?”
Rugge replied, “Yeah, I guess so. Look, all I know is any prison I go to, I know there’s someone else who’s gonna know.”
Reinstadler stated again, “You afraid of Jesse Hollywood?”
Rugge answered, “I’m not afraid of Jesse Hollywood. I’m afraid of someone else.”
“You afraid of Ryan Hoyt?”
“I’m afraid of someone else.”
“You afraid of Skidmore?”
“No, no. Skidmore has nothing to do with this.”
“So you’re telling me there’s someone besides Ryan and Jesse Hollywood involved in this?”
Rugge answered, “Just tell me all the stuff as much as you know, and then I’ll fill in the blanks for you.”
Reinstadler laughed and replied, “We can’t do that, man.”
West tried a new approach. “This is what I know. You put Nick in the car, took him up to West Camino Cielo, and you put bullets into him. Is that what you want us to put on the report and send to the judge?”
“No!”
“Then tell us what happened. If you sit there and held him, if you helped Nick out, if you thought he was gonna go back to L.A. after this was all over, if you were there, and you were feeling like you were forced into doing something you really didn’t want to be involved in, and you were gonna be killed if you didn’t cooperate or whatever, tell us. If you’re afraid of somebody, we’ve gotta know who it is or we can’t protect you.”
Reinstadler said, “People are goin’ down, anyway, man. You might as well help yourself out by letting us know the details.”
Rugge was still frightened, though, and replied, “And I just meet up with them in the transfers.”
“No, you don’t. I mean the jail isn’t stupid. We can’t do that. We can’t put you in harm’s way.”
“So where do I go?”
“I can’t tell you right now, ’cause I don’t run the jail. You’ll be put somewhere that you won’t be in contact with these people.”
Rugge replied, “But you see, the rumors get around. Other people inside there don’t like the situation.”
West responded, “Jesse, there’s a lot of people in jail far worse than you. And they live long lives. This is not an issue. The issue here is how long are you gonna be in jail, because if we go to a judge with what we know, you’re goin’ down for first-degree murder.”
Reinstadler added, “You saw guns. You saw shovels, you saw duct tape, you went up the hill with another person. And you came down, and Nick wasn’t there anymore. This is a capital murder case. Do you understand what that means?”
“I don’t know, sir.”
“That means you could be sentenced to death. Unless we start gettin’ information better than it looks. You took him up the hill and you killed him. You put him in his own grave. You shot him multiple times with an automatic weapon while he was trussed up. So it isn’t gonna matter who you’re afraid of. I’d be afraid of the needle! Is that spin a little different? Jesse, I saw you a second ago, with tears welling up in your eyes because you knew that Nick Markowitz shouldn’t have died. You thought that this was just a way to get Ben to pay a debt.”
Rugge started moaning. “Ah, shit! Oh, shit! You know who killed him. I know you guys know.”
Reinstadler replied, “I need to hear it from you because of what I don’t know.”
Rugge asked, “How many people are goin’to death for this?”
Reinstadler answered, “I want the guy who pulled the trigger. That’s what I want. What do you want?”
West added, “I think from seeing this kid lying there in the dirt, the ones responsible for it should get what they deserve. If it means Jesse Hollywood contracted this whole thing, then he should go.”
Rugge responded, “No one contracted anything. It just happened.”
West replied, “Tell us how it happened. Because if you’re not the one . . . you better tell us.”
Rugge moaned, “I wanna die. I’m gonna die, anyways. Fuck!”
West continued, “Our guys are out there gettin’ that little maroon car, whatever you wanna call it. It’s gonna have evidence in it. We’re gonna get the guy who did it. So you tell us if you want to help yourself, you have to tell us. It’s the only way.”
Reinstadler added, “Why do you think it just happened?”
Rugge responded, “He just . . . I don’t know what to say. I don’t know how to put this until I hear what other people’s stories are.”
“We can’t do that, bro. We gotta hear your story. You know that, and you wanna tell a story.”
West chimed in, “The only way to get rid of all the agony that you’re feeling right now is to get the story out.”
Rugge was still very scared about telling what happened in court, especially about who the “triggerman” was. Rugge said, “And then I gotta tell the story four more times in front of everyone else.”
Reinstadler shot back, “Don’t you think it doesn’t really matter at this point what you say? You gotta think of yourself, man.”
“I’m dead. Is anything happening to my parents? Please tell me.”
Reinstadler said that nothing was happening to them. “They’re not under arrest. We’ve been talking to them. They’re probably still here.”
Rugge groaned. “I’m dying for something so stupid! So fuckin’ stupid! I should never have done it. Look, all I did was hold the kid, all right. I didn’t even know what was goin’ on. I went to a place up there and all I know was a person was supposed to come up and take him away.”
West asked, “Are you saying that’s what they told you?”
“Yeah.”
“Right off West Camino Cielo, someone was supposed to meet you up there? Or down at the Lemon Tree?”
“Down at the Lemon Tree.”
“That was supposed to be Jesse Hollywood, right?”
“No, sir.”
“Then tell us who it was.”
“Fuck, man! I gotta point them out to the jury in a courtroom, don’t I?”
“Not necessarily. You know what you’re doing? You’re protecting him. Think how quickly he’s gonna give you up. This is somebody that used you. He thought you were nothin’but a pawn in his game. And he used you and then tossed you after he got what he wanted.”
Rugge asked, “What’s gonna happen to me after this? I go to jail for how long?”
Reinstadler said, “Don’t worry about that. You should worry about what we’ve started here.”
West added, “That’s gonna make a big factor in the determination of the final outcome of this.”
Rugge said, “I can’t believe this! I can’t believe it came down to this.”
“You made a mistake, man. You just have to make the best of the situation. Which means you need to answer our questions.”
Rugge nearly cried. “I feel so bad, man.”
“Who do you feel bad for?”
“I feel bad for Nick. I’m so going down. For capital murder. But I did not pull the trigger.”
“Prove it by telling us what happened. Prove it, Jess!”
“I don’t know where to start, man.”
“Why don’t you start at the beginning.”
Rugge asked, “Lemon Tree Inn?”
“No, that’s not the beginning. Come on. When did you first . . . well, will you answer the questions truthfully as I ask them?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Okay, when was the first time you were supposed to hold Nick Markowitz?”
“I think after the second day. He slept over my house.”
“Who brought him over?”
“He got picked up.”
“Who was there?”
“I was there. This guy tells me to jump out of the van and grab this kid, and I said, ‘No!’”
“Who was this guy?”
“A guy.”
“Can you say it? Jesse Hollywood?”
Trying to get Rugge to say that Jesse Hollywood had told him to grab Nick was like pulling nails.
West jumped in and said, “I thought you said it was a van.”
“It was a car, I think.”
“It was a van, wasn’t it?”
“Yes, sir.”
“Whose van was it?”
“I don’t know.”
“Yes, you do!”
“No, I don’t!”
“I’m not asking you who killed him, I’m asking whose van it was.”
“I don’t know whose van it was.”
Reinstadler asked, “Who was drivin’ it?”
“Jesse Hollywood was driving the van,” Rugge lied. “All I know is, I didn’t wanna grab that kid. They made him get in the car. They ended up making me drive and I said, ‘I’m not keeping this kid over at my house.’”
Reinstadler tried calming Rugge down. He said, “Look, the hard part is out of the way. Jesse Hollywood, okay.” Rugge had obviously slipped up by saying that Jesse Hollywood had been at the initial kidnapping, although for some reason he lied by saying that Hollywood had driven the van.
Rugge was still “freakin’,” as he put it, and exclaimed, “I didn’t touch the fucking kid!”
“Okay. I believe you. How do you get down to the Valley from here?”
“I take the train.”
“What day was it that you took the train?”
“Nah, I got picked up.”
“Why are you lying about trains and stuff?”
“I’m just scared, man.”
“Look, Jess. I know you’re scared. The hardest part is out of the way.”
“Jesse Hollywood didn’t kill him!”
“Have we been mean to you? Are we trying to treat you with respect?”
“I don’t know where I’m goin’. All I know is I’m a rat. And all I know is I’m fuckin’ going down. I know the way I look. Like a fuckin’ bitch!”
West got back to the point that Rugge had been holding Nick, and Rugge replied, “I just held him at my house. That was all I did. I didn’t touch him. I didn’t hit him. I let him walk around freely. I let him use my bath.”
Reinstadler asked sarcastically, “He walk his own self up to Lizard’s Mouth? Look, what happened after you got up there? What went wrong?”
Rugge replied, “He was taken to his grave and got shot.”
“Who was up there besides you? Once you get it out of your system, you’ll feel a lot better, man.”
“I’m going down, man. I’d rather stay in Santa Barbara than go to any other prisons. Anywhere else I go, there’s brothers in there. You guys know who killed him. It wasn’t Jesse Hollywood. You know that.”
“You have to tell me. I’m not gonna tell you.”
“So it’s me who goes down for the murder?”
“You have to tell me, or that’s what’s gonna happen.”
“I didn’t even touch the gun. There’s no fingerprints on it.”
“I know it got wiped down.”
“What happens to me now? Do I spend the night?”
“Don’t worry about that. Let’s finish this.”
“If I say his name, I’m finished.”
“Listen. You say you held Nick. That can be interpreted as kidnapping. You told us that he got grabbed and put in a van. Jesse Hollywood is the one who told you to do that. You wouldn’t do it, so somebody else did. And then you ended up driving the van.”
Rugge once again said, “Jesse Hollywood had nothing to do with this.”
Reinstadler uttered one word in response, “Ugh!”
So around and around they went, until Rugge said, “This kid got pulled up a hill, over to his grave and got shot. I might as well have died with the kid.”
Reinstadler shot back, “You helped dig the grave, didn’t you?”
“I didn’t dig no grave! Fuck no! You know who dug the goddamn grave!” By now, he really was freaking out.
“Jesse!”
“You guys are givin’ me the third-degree burn. All I know is I’m dead! So you might as well take me in for murder. I’m goin’ in for capital punishment. I sit there for six months and then go sit on death row!”
“That’s what it’s gonna be, unless you tell us what happened and who did it. That’s the way it works. It’s not our fault that you’re in this spot, man.”
Rugge asked, “You guys talk to Natasha?”
“We’re not gonna tell you who we talked to.”
“Graham?”
West wondered, “Is that why you don’t want to tell us his last name?”
“Graham, Nathan and Kelly were in the hotel room that night. I never hurt the boy. Never, never even laid a finger on him. Don’t get any wrong impression of me. I’m not a fuckin’ killer. He could have run. He just obeyed everything. He just sat there and helped me out on a few things.”
Reinstadler said, “Somebody had to be with him all the time.”
Rugge responded, “Everyone was with him all the time. He wasn’t tied down. He sat there and watched TV. I even left him alone with the phone and he could have made a phone call.”
“Okay, so what was the plan then, to try and get this money?”
“I don’t fuckin’ know! I was never told about it!”
“Why did Jesse Hollywood want him picked up?”
“Look, we were driving down the street and this guy goes, ‘Isn’t that what’s-his-name’s brother?’ All I did was watch the kid get put in his grave and get shot.” (Rugge still would not say Hollywood’s name knowingly.)
West asked, “What did the killer get out of this? Enjoyment?”
“I don’t know.”
Reinstadler asked, “Money?”
Rugge answered, “I don’t know. My conscience has been eating away at me for the last week and a half.”
West said that it was going to continue until Rugge started telling the whole truth, but Rugge kept saying he was going to die if he told. The detectives answered that he could be protected, and around and around it went. They tried working on his sympathy for Nick. West said, “The only person that can help Nick now is you. Nick is dead, but you can do the right thing and it’s gonna put you in a good place.”
To this, Rugge asked, “Where is Graham?”
Reinstadler was getting to the end of his wits on all of this, and said, “I’m not gonna tell ya. We have no control of whether this is a capital case or not. We don’t know if they’ll file it as that or not. But for the district attorney and judge and jury to know what is appropriate, they need to know from you what happened and who did it. Because without that, it sounds like you’re just trying to cover your ass and you shot him.”
Trying a different tack, West asked, “Was Graham your buddy?”
“He’s a friend of mine.”
“Do you think he’s still your friend?”
“I don’t know, man.”
“What did Graham get out of this?”
“Jack shit! He was a pawn. And I didn’t take any money. I didn’t take fuckin’ diddly-squat!”
Reinstadler said, “But they offered you two thousand dollars.”
“Nope.”
“What? Then why were you telling people that?”
“Me? Nah. You just want the killer’s name. All you want is the killer’s name. All right! Fuck! I’ll be running if they don’t kill me.”
“Come on!”
“It’s so hard to say, man. I’m dead both ways. It doesn’t matter. I was there—an accessory to murder. I can still go to the death chamber. I’m the one who fuckin’kept the kid with me. You guys know that from speaking to people, people who obviously thought this kid was gonna die. I treated this kid like my friend. Just ’cause I have tattoos and shit, I’m not a fuckin’ liar!”
West jumped in and said, “I can see you’re really agonizing over it, because it’s placed you in a bad place. The only way you’re gonna get out of there is by—”
“Ratting! Ratting!”
“No. Saying what happened.”
Rugge was begging for a cigarette at this point, but they wouldn’t give him one. Rugge also said that he knew the name of the one who had pulled the trigger, but once he said it, he’d be a marked man.
Reinstadler replied, “You’re the guy who needs to prove you’re not the cold-blooded killer. You keep repeating that you didn’t do anything, but we know that you did go up the hill, and we know you and two other guys went up the hill, and we know that only two of you came back, and we know that there were gunshots.”
“Two of us?” This comment made Rugge’s ears perk up—they were excluding Graham Pressley in these equations. Rugge asked, “You haven’t talked to Graham? Graham didn’t say anything about what he did, did he? Obviously not.”
This was also an opening for the detectives. Reinstadler kept saying, “What did I tell you?” meaning that Graham Pressley was protecting himself. And West said, “You’re gonna protect him. I can see you wanna say it real bad. It’s that part of you that’s wondering what will happen afterward.”
Rugge answered, “Nah, I know what’s gonna happen.”
Reinstadler countered, saying, “I just keep hearing this sad song. It sounds like a killer trying to cover his butt. Because I’ll tell you this much, unless you want to give us details, we have no alternative.”
“I didn’t dig that hole.”
“Then who dug it?”
“You already spoke to him.”
“You telling me Graham dug that hole?”
“Yeah.” (This was the first time any detective heard of this.)
“Is that what you’re tellin’me? Don’t give me any bullshit! I don’t wanna talk in codes anymore.”
“Look, I held the kid, took the kid up the hill, but I didn’t stick no bullets in him. I didn’t dig no fuckin’hole. I didn’t drive the kid there. I didn’t do anything with the kid. All I did was look at him when he was dead. And Graham dug the hole, but didn’t kill the kid.”
Reinstadler once again asked who pulled the trigger, and Rugge once again wouldn’t tell him. Reinstadler was getting fed up with all the tap dancing around the issue and said, “We need to hear it from you, because if we don’t hear it from you, I’m gonna do everything I can to get you juice, ’cause I think you killed him.” Rugge kept denying he knew more than he’d already said, but West asked him what Graham had been doing up on West Camino Cielo. Rugge answered, “Graham sat by the car. The guy pulled the trigger. I helped the guy.”
Reinstadler said, “You helped bury the kid, though.”
“I only put like two shovel digs on him. I got sick. I couldn’t do it.”
“What was Nick saying, man? Was he making any noise?”
“No.”
“What was the guy tellin’him before he did it?”
“I don’t know.”
“You heard what he said.”
“No, I don’t know what he said.”
“You were standing right there!”
“Yeah, but half the time I was standing over at the rock, pretty much worrying about my whole entire life flashing in front of me. I didn’t know what the fuck I was gonna do.”
“Why didn’t you run?”
“I was scared.”
“You better be scared if you don’t tell us who pulled the trigger.”
West added, “Who bound and gagged him?”
Rugge answered, “I don’t know who tied his arms. Probably the same guy who shot him.”
Reinstadler asked, “Was Nick goin’ along with the program? He wasn’t screaming and yelling? After all, he wasn’t gagged when he got up there.”
“Exactly.”
“So how did it happen? It took more than one dude. Were you gonna scare him? Was that the deal? What was the plan?”
“There was no fucking plan!”
“So what happened? You were at the Lemon Tree.”
“All of us got into a car. Myself, Ryan and Graham.” (This was the first time that Rugge mentioned Ryan’s name.)
Reinstadler asked, “What’s Ryan’s last name?”
This freaked Rugge out once again, and he exclaimed. “I don’t know! I really don’t know.”
“What did Jesse Hollywood call him?”
Rugge kept saying over and over that he didn’t know, so Reinstadler asked him what kind of car they had been in, and Rugge said that it was a dark-colored Toyota. Even getting him to say what color it was, or if it was old or new, was a trial for the detectives. Reinstadler then said, “If I come up with a last name for Ryan, will you confirm it?”
Rugge answered, “If I know his last name.”
“Well, do you know his last name or not? I think you do, because this guy has been hanging around with Hollywood for a while. He deals with Hollywood, and you know all about that. I’m not asking you about Hollywood’s dealing, okay. We’re talking about something entirely different here. Tell me his name.”
Rugge once again wouldn’t say Ryan Hoyt’s last name, but he did say that he’d played baseball with him in West Hills on a team named the Pirates. He also said that Ryan was a “bum-ass kid.” Then Rugge told the detectives to ask his dad what Ryan’s last name was.
In exasperation Reinstadler said, “I don’t wanna hear it from your dad! There’s a billion Ryans out in the world. I wanna hear it from you. This is what we’re going to do, Jesse. We’re gonna prove that you know Ryan’s last name, just like we proved you were at the Lemon Tree. Once you tell me his last name, we can move on. We won’t have to play this game for hours. I will make sure you’re not in any kind of contact with him or anyone he knows in jail.”
Rugge said, “I don’t mind Santa Barbara, but anywhere else, I’m gonna die. I’m a rat, man. Do you know what they do to people like me?”
“Listen. I think you’re just worried about yourself. You’re not worried about Nick, who rotted in that hole with maggots all over him. You’re not worried about anyone but yourself. Prove me wrong.”
There was more questioning about the initial kidnapping and Reinstadler asked, “What was Jesse Hollywood saying why they needed to kidnap someone?”
Rugge replied, “He wasn’t kidnapped.”
“What do you call it?
“Okay. I guess it was a kidnapping. All right, this kid was brought up.” And then the moment the detectives had been waiting for, Rugge added, “Hoyt came up.”
Reinstadler jumped on that and said, “Ah, slip of the tongue!”
Rugge said, “It’s all good. I’d already wanted to say it.”
Reinstadler replied, “Tell me his name again,” and Rugge responded, “Ryan Hoyt.”
After all of this, Rugge admitted that he was afraid of Ryan Hoyt’s brother. Rugge said, “His brother is locked up in prison. His brother did strong-arm robbery against some lawyer-type guy.”
Reinstadler breathed a sigh of relief and said, “Okay, now the easy part starts. Now we can just get to the business of figuring it out, okay.”
Detective West wanted to know why duct tape had been placed around Nick’s wrists and mouth, and wondered if he’d been screaming. Rugge replied that Nick hadn’t been screaming, and that he’d only put tape around Nick’s wrists on Ryan Hoyt’s orders. Rugge added, “Nick didn’t say anything. He was cooperating. He didn’t fight. I just told him to put his hands together, and I said, ‘I’m not gonna hurt you.’ And he said, ‘I know you’re not,’ and put his hands together like this. I put tape around his hands.” Rugge added that it was Hoyt who had put tape around Nick’s mouth.
As to who had gone up the trail on the way to kill Nick, West put it in a different way that implicated Pressley even more. West said, “So you’re walking up this trail—you, Ryan, Graham and Nick, and you’re carrying shovels and tape and this bag with a gun in it.”
Rugge did not correct him by saying that Graham Pressley had not gone up the trail to Lizard’s Mouth with the rest of them. All Rugge said was “I don’t know what the bag looked like. Black duffel bag.”
Reinstadler asked, “Did Graham wait down at the car on the second trip?”
Rugge answered, “He had to walk us there.”
Another important point came up when the detectives asked who carried the shovels up to the hole that night. Rugge said that the shovels and the hole were already there, and continued, “Premeditated murder. It sounds like premeditated murder, but it wasn’t. It was so sporadic.”
Reinstadler wanted to know what Rugge thought was going to happen when they marched Nick up the hill. Rugge answered, “I thought all I was doing was holding the kid for a day and a half, and then letting this kid go back down to where he lived.... I’ve ruined my life! I’ve ruined this kid’s life! I ruined the kid’s family’s life!”
Rugge explained that before shooting Nick, Hoyt had propped him up on a rock and told him, “Sit here.” Then Rugge said, “He (Hoyt) pulled him into the hole. I didn’t care to look. Right then, I knew he was gonna die.”
Reinstadler wanted to know who had called him at the hotel and said that someone was coming up from the L.A. area. Rugge said it was Hoyt who had phoned him, and not Jesse Hollywood. Then Rugge counteracted this statement that maybe it had been Jesse Hollywood, after all. Pressed on this point, Rugge finally admitted that it was Jesse Hollywood who had phoned and said that someone would be coming up to Santa Barbara.
What was strange to the detectives, and to Rugge as well, was that no one ever did phone Ben Markowitz about the debt. Rugge explained, “They said nothing to me at all about money situations with this guy. I was holding the kid, and that’s all. You can talk to anyone up here, dude. All I wanted to do was fuckin’ let him go. Someone was supposed to come up to the Lemon Tree, and I’d let him go. But then Hoyt showed up, and that’s when I knew everything went sour. I was expectin’ Jesse Hollywood, at least to show his fuckin’ face. I let them use my house to hold this kid, and they killed him in my neighborhood!”
A lot of what happened didn’t make sense, and Rugge agreed with the detectives on that score. “They kept saying, ‘Don’t worry, just keep Nick there. Just make him like your best friend,’ and that’s what I did.”
West asked, “And they didn’t offer you anything for that? Just use your house?”
“Yeah.”
West wanted to know why Hoyt confided in Pressley, but kept Rugge in the dark about his intent to kill Nick. Rugge answered, “Because Graham had to dig a hole.” And Rugge added that Graham Pressley had been used, because he had been up around Lizard’s Mouth in the past. Detective West finally pinned down all five co-conspirators when he said, “Graham, Skidmore, Ryan, Jesse Hollywood and you.” Rugge did not argue with that assessment.
West wanted to know what both Ryan Hoyt and Rugge had said after the killing. Rugge answered, “I didn’t say anything. I puked my guts out. And Ryan didn’t say anything. I just kept lookin’ at him. I kept lookin’ at him. I couldn’t believe it.”
Then, out of the blue, Reinstadler asked, “Was there any sexual contact between you and Nick, or anyone else involved in this?”
Rugge was shocked and said, “Fuck no!”
As the grueling session finally wound down, Rugge kept repeating, like a mantra, “I’m a rat! I’m a fuckin’ rat!”
When it was all over, Detective West and Sergeant Reinstadler probably felt like taking Excedrin Extra Strength. It had been an interview from hell.