Most Wanted Killer

There were many people who eventually testified before the grand jury, but amongst these Jack Hollywood, John Roberts and Michelle Lasher would give some of the most telling insights into Jesse James Hollywood’s world. DDA Ron Zonen’s questioning of Jack Hollywood before the grand jury was lengthy and detailed. Zonen did not always believe the answers he was getting from Jack Hollywood. In several instances the answers seemed to be in variance with what Zonen knew, or thought he knew. Nonetheless, the questions and answers shed new light on some of the events that had occurred.

Things kicked off by Ron Zonen saying, “Mr. Hollywood, good morning. You’ve just appeared before Judge Gordon, is that correct?”

“Yes, it is,” Jack Hollywood replied.

“Judge Gordon—did he grant and convey upon you a grant of immunity?”

“And at this time, is it correct that you’re prepared to testify and answer all questions?”

Ron Zonen had Jack testify about his phone conversation with Stephen Hogg at the Ventana Inn in Big Sur, his drive back to the L.A. area with his wife, Laurie, and his trying to page Jesse, but being unsuccessful. Zonen also asked him about John Roberts and what their plan was. Jack said, “I talked to Jesse, and Jesse said that they were just scared, but that the kid was okay and he was just hanging out at some house somewhere. I didn’t know at the time which house it was, or whose house it was, or what city it was in.”

“Did you ask him (Jesse) specifically to tell you where?”

“He was hesitant. I said, ‘Who was with you?’ and I started to say some names of kids that he hung out with, and he said, ‘I don’t want to say anything! I don’t want to say anything! I’ll find out where he is and then you can go and get him.’”

Zonen asked, “Do you know a Jesse Rugge?”

Jack answered, “Yes, I do.”

“Do you know that he lives part-time in Santa Barbara, part-time in the Valley?”

“At some point did it occur to you that might be the place that they would have taken this kid?”

“Not really. It didn’t occur to me. No.”

“Were you under the belief that at the time that you were having this conversation with your son at Michelle Lasher’s home that this kid was still being detained, to some extent?”

“Did it concern you?”

“It did concern me, if he was being detained.”

Many of Jack Hollywood’s answers did not satisfy Zonen that Jack had done much of anything to make sure that the “detained kid” was set free. Zonen told him, “Mr. Hollywood, I’m having difficulty believing that this is true, that you had now spent about twelve to sixteen hours worrying about the fact that your son was involved in a kidnapping, and you finally had a conversation with the person who your son tells you was responsible for this kid’s release, and you didn’t bother to ask him (Ryan Hoyt) who this person (Nick) was.”

Jack replied, “I may have, but I don’t recall. I mean, to me, it wouldn’t matter who it was, the important thing was to get him out of the situation he was in. And maybe I did ask, and maybe he told me, and it really didn’t mean anything to me.”

“Didn’t it occur to you at some point that there may be some kid you knew, whose parents you knew? Did that cross your mind at any time during this twelve- to sixteen-hour period?”

“It may have.”

“All right, when you asked him (Hoyt) the question, and he may have given an answer, do you remember if it was a name you recognized?”

“I’m just not sure if he gave me the answer, or if it was that important to me what the name of the kid was.”

“You didn’t have a discussion with your wife at any time while you were driving down from Big Sur? ‘I wonder who this person is that they took and why they took him?’”

“At that point when I was driving from there, I didn’t have that much information, and I didn’t discuss it with my wife. I just said there was some kind of jam that these kids have gotten into and I want to find out what it was.”

“While you were talking with your son Jesse, did you ask him who this kid was, and what the gripe was about?”

“I’m not sure if I did.”

“You’re not sure if you asked your son who the kid was?”

“I’m not sure if I asked that question. I mean, we can go round and round, but I’m just telling you, I don’t recall exactly if I knew what the kid’s name was at that point. Maybe I did, and maybe I didn’t. It didn’t seem important to me. The thing that was important, if there was a kid, it didn’t matter what his name was. [I was thinking,] ‘Let’s make sure that nothing happens to him.’”

“Were you kind of under the belief that this might have something to do with your son’s drug dealing?”

“You were aware that your son was dealing drugs?”

“Your son owned a couple of homes, didn’t he?”

“No, he owned one home.”

“He owned a few cars at different times?”

“You know, reading the paper, it made it sound like he had millions of dollars. What he had was a 1986 Mercedes with about two hundred thousand miles on it that he bought for four thousand dollars.”

“He also had a Honda that he insured for over thirty thousand dollars, didn’t he?”

“Yeah. I can tell you about that car. I bought the car for him. And his hobby was fixing up cars, getting them painted, putting things on them and doing things. And over a two-year period, he got it fixed up and got it into a magazine. Then I guess he had it insured for a lot of money because it was a valuable car.”

“And how long after he insured it, was it stolen?”

“I’m not sure.”

“Were you aware of the fact that it was stolen?”

“Do you know if he collected on the insurance?”

“I think he said so, yes.”

“Do you know if your son had any enemies?”

“Do you know who they are?”

“The only one I can think of was Ben Markowitz.”

“And what did you understand to be the nature of the friction between your son and Ben Markowitz?”

“I knew that Markowitz was always threatening him. I think Jesse felt that the guy killed his dog and broke windows and always called up and left threatening messages on his voice mail.”

“Did you ever talk with your son specifically about the allegation that Ben killed his dog? I mean, it would seem to me to be a fairly serious matter, someone intentionally killing one’s pet.”

“What kind of dog was it?”

“It was a puppy. Pit bull puppy.”

“How was the dog killed?”

“It was mysterious. I wasn’t sure if the dog just caught his collar on the fence, or if it was choked, or if it was poisoned, or whatever. But, mysteriously, the dog was dead.”

“How long prior to the incident that we’re referring to here, was the death of the dog?”

“Probably three months.”

“Now, assuming the dog was killed, the likely number one choice of who would have done it would have been Ben Markowitz, according to your son, is that right?”

“Was there any other name that came up?”

“At some point in time, your son was actually friends with Ben Markowitz, wasn’t he?”

“Do you know when they were friends, what period of time that was?”

“Not very long, I don’t think. Maybe four or five months.”

“Do you know what ended their friendship?”

“I think from what I heard, that the guy (Ben) was always hanging around there, and then one day he just stole, well, one time Jesse wasn’t home, and Markowitz found his wallet or something, grabbed a thousand bucks out of it and just disappeared. Everybody else that knew Jesse thought the guy was a scumbag and that he was a leech. A crack-smoking kind of guy.”

“So Jesse told you that he believed Ben Markowitz stole about a thousand bucks from him?”

“All right, so it was bad blood even before the dog died. When did you understand the broken-window incident to occur, and what do you understand that to be?”

“The broken-window incident—Jesse was going to move out of the house and go move into an apartment. Go back to school and get away from every problem he was having. And they (he and his friends) had already moved most of the stuff out of the house into a storage unit. They were just staying over for the last night to clear up the rest of the stuff, and then he was going to go out and start looking for another place to live. And, evidently, windows were smashed and another threatening message was left: ‘This is just the beginning. It doesn’t matter where you go, I’m going to get you!’ Blah, blah, blah.”

“So, again, during all of this period of time, the first name that comes up in Jesse’s mind is Ben Markowitz, right?”

“There’s nobody else that you’re aware of at this point, at least according to your son, who he believed posed a threat to him?”

“Well, I think he said that the guy (Ben) was involved in some kind of gang and had people posing some kind of threats. As soon as I saw that kid I said, ‘Why is this guy always hanging around your house?’ He was living in his house. Jesse was working, laying hardwood floor. He wasn’t involved in a big giant drug scheme, like the paper said. He was working laying hardwood floor. His girlfriend was living there, and he was doing well for a kid his age. And then all of a sudden, this Markowitz kid showed up. When I saw that, I noticed a change in Jesse’s personality, and I said, ‘What’s this guy doing? He’s over there answering your phone all the time.’ Next thing I know, Jesse’s girlfriend is moving out. And Jesse got kind of mad at me and he said, ‘Well, this guy is my friend. I don’t need you telling me what’s going on.’ And after all of this stuff started happening, he was very hesitant to tell me about it. He didn’t want to tell me because, kind of like, ‘You were right about this guy and he’s not a good guy.’”

“All right, let me ask you this—you were having a conversation with your son where you believed that he was involved in the abduction of some kid, to some extent—why didn’t it occur to you that Ben Markowitz might have been involved in this?”

“I think it occurred to me.”

“You think you might have known that it was Ben Markowitz’s brother who was abducted at that point?”

“I may have.”

“All right. Didn’t that really change things rather significantly that you know the identity of the person who was taken up there? I mean, wouldn’t it change your view very substantially at this point, as of the time of the second conversation the next day with John Roberts?”

“Change my view from what to what?” Jack asked.

“Well, did you make an effort to contact Ben Markowitz’s parents?”

“I don’t know them. No, I didn’t.”

“Did you know who they are?”

“No. I never met them. I didn’t know where they lived. I didn’t know anything about them.”

“Did you ask your son anything about them?”

“Did you open up a telephone book and look up the name Markowitz?”

“Why not? You were concerned about locating him. Wouldn’t that be the obvious answer as to how to locate him?”

“No, that’s . . . I didn’t do that.”

As for any questions that related to Stephen Hogg, according to Jack Hollywood, Hogg had given him permission to talk about the conversations that had taken place between himself and Hogg.

Zonen asked, “Then let me address that question right now. What specifically did Mr. Hogg tell you about the difficulties your son was having?”

Jack answered, “He didn’t get specific about it. He just told me that Jesse was in some kind of jam, and that it was serious. And you know, that was pretty much all I remember.”

“Did he tell you that your son asked him specifically what kind of consequence there was to what he did?”

“In other words, how much time potentially he could serve?”

“No, he didn’t.”

“Did Mr. Hogg tell you what the jam was?”

“Not specifically. He was very vague about it, but he sounded like it was serious.”

“Did you ask him any questions along the lines of, has he hurt anybody? Did he steal something? Was he arrested? Did you ask questions along that line?”

“Not that I can recall.”

“And why not? Wouldn’t you have been interested as a parent?”

“I was interested, but I’ve known Mr. Hogg for a long time, and I knew by the tone of his voice, he didn’t like to talk about things like that over the telephone, and that it was serious. And I told him, ‘Okay, I’m going to come down and I’m going to find my son,’ and that was it.”

“Who called who [first]?”

“I called him regarding a case that I had in Ventura.”

Jack Hollywood said the phone call had been made from the Ventana Inn, and that it had been in the later part of the afternoon. Zonen wondered why Jack called Hogg at his home, and not his office, and Jack Hollywood said that he knew Hogg wouldn’t be at his office around 3:00 or 4:00 P.M.

Zonen once again asked if Hogg had been more specific about Jesse rather than just saying the situation was “serious.”

Jack Hollywood answered, “Steve said, ‘He’s okay, but this is serious.’ And I said, ‘Well, what’s it about?’ And he said, ‘It’s not something that we should discuss on the phone.’ And I said, ‘Okay, well, then, I’m going to be down tonight.’”

“Did you ask Mr. Hogg to call John Roberts?”

“I’m not sure if I initiated that. I might have,” Jack answered.

“Why would you have asked Mr. Hogg to call John Roberts?”

“Well, because John is a close family friend and he was there, and if there was something that he could do before the eight hours, or seven hours, whatever it was going to take to drive down, he would be the one that I would have called.”

“Did you ask Mr. Hogg to give more information to John Roberts than he gave to you?”

“Did you ask Mr. Hogg to meet with John Roberts?”

“I don’t recall if I did or not.”

“Did you feel that this was a problem that John Roberts could deal with?”

“I didn’t know exactly what the problem was, but I just knew that John . . . well, if Jesse needed help with something, he was the guy that I would have got ahold of.”

“You felt that John Roberts could remedy a problem that your son was having?”

“I don’t think I would put it that way. I’d just put it that he’s a good family friend.”

“Okay, let me get back to the conversation that you had with Mr. Hoyt in the park. Tell me about your conversation with Mr. Hoyt. Did you ask him why this happened?”

“I don’t think I did.”

“Did you ask him what the nature of the event was? What happened?”

“He was evasive and vague and just seemed very rattled,” Jack replied.

“Did you ask him where Ben Markowitz’s brother was?”

“I think so.”

“What did he tell you?”

“He said he didn’t know. He didn’t have any control of it. He said he’d see what he could find out.”

“Did you ask him who else was involved in this?”

“I believe I did.”

“What did he say?”

“He wouldn’t give me any names.”

“So, at the conclusion of your conversation with Mr. Hoyt, you had no reason to believe at that moment that Ben Markowitz’s brother was safe?”

“You had a conversation with two people, one was your son and the other was a close friend of your son, and neither one of these two people, who you know intimately, were prepared to give you information at all, is that correct?”

“My son gave me the information that he was trying to get ahold of Nick. And that wherever he was, they probably let him go, and then he gave me Ryan’s number. And then Ryan didn’t indicate to me where he (Nick) was, or anything.”

“How come you weren’t more insistent in getting information from him?”

“I was getting nowhere with him. He wasn’t acting like himself.”

“Did you tell him you were going to the police if he didn’t answer your question?”

“I don’t know. I wish I had.”

“Did it occur to you to contact the police?”

“So you made a conscious decision not to?”

“I was just in a really confused and worried state of mind.” Jack added, “Everything was a blur from the day it hit the newspaper, and then a couple of days later, my son was wanted. And it was just the newspaper people all around, and police coming to my house. And I was in some kind of state of panic.”

Zonen said, “Your life has been very different since that trip to Big Sur, hasn’t it?”

Jack replied, “Yes.”

Zonen questioned when the next time was that Jack had a conversation with his son, and Jack said it was after he’d learned that Nick Markowitz had been killed. “I was trying to get ahold of Jesse and find out what was going on. What had happened. And he was just avoiding me. He didn’t want to talk about anything. I was calling his friends and asking them where I could find him. I never really had any conversation with him after that. I tried to get ahold of him, and I maybe touched base with him on the phone. I said, ‘We need to get together.’ And he always said, ‘I have to do something.’”

Zonen replied, “From the time that you had the conversation with your son, the second conversation at Michelle Lasher’s home, to the time that you discovered that there had been a killing in connection with this event, how many conversations did you have with your son?”

“I never had any conversations with him regarding what had happened. I just had tried to page him or track him somewhere and say, ‘Let’s get together and talk.’ But he didn’t want to talk about it.”

“Did you try to contact anybody else who you knew to be friends of either your son or Ryan Hoyt?”

“I know I tried. I called friends of his to see where he was and tell him to call me.”

“Was your son not staying at home during this time?”

“I think he was staying at Michelle’s house.”

“Did you still believe your son was in danger? That the activity that was the subject matter of your conversation with Mr. Hogg, something that Mr. Hogg convinced you was a serious matter—did you believe that it was any less serious after a number of days had gone by?”

“How did you learn that Nick Markowitz had been killed?”

“From the newspapers.”

“When you saw the newspaper, did it have Nick Markowitz’s picture?”

“Did you automatically assume that this was what this was all about?”

“What did you do?”

“I was just out of it. I just looked at it, and I knew my son’s life could be over, for all intents and purposes. I was shocked,” Jack admitted.

“Mr. Hollywood, I understand your reaction, but the question specifically is—what did you do? Did you call somebody?”

“I probably didn’t do anything.”

“Did you talk with your wife?”

“Yes, I think so.”

“Were you, at the time, living with your wife?”

“Had the two of you been separated for some time prior to that?”

“Did you call her?”

“I think I was over there. I spent a lot of time over there because I have another son.”

“Had you been keeping her advised of what was going on?”

“I think I was sheltering it from her.”

“When you saw the article, what did you do, with regard to your wife?”

“I think we talked about it. That somehow our kid might have something to do with this stuff.”

“Can I assume that she was as horrified as you were at that point?”

“And perhaps even more so, because she didn’t really know what was happening, up to that point?”

“Right. She knew something was going on, but I don’t think she wanted to deal with it.”

Zonen took Jack back in time to the trip to Palm Springs, and Zonen asked if he had made any efforts to contact Jesse while he was there. Jack said no, that he didn’t get to Palm Springs until around midnight, and then left again at 6:00 A.M., after only a few hours’ sleep. Zonen asked if Jack had talked to his wife about anything that Jesse had told her, while in Palm Springs, and Jack answered, “She just indicated that he was very distressed and he wasn’t himself. He was very upset.”

“Did she tell you whether or not she had discussed these issues with your son? The issue specifically of Ben’s missing brother?”

“She didn’t indicate that she had.”

“Did you ask her, why not?”

“I hadn’t even really discussed it with her up to that point.”

“You seemed not to be making a great big effort to see if you could resolve it. Why not?”

“Like I said, when this whole thing happened, it turned my life upside down. I was worried about my son. I was worried about what could happen to this kid. And I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know if there was anybody I could trust about anything. That I would implicate Jesse in it and would make the situation worse. I was just in a daze.”

“Did you try to locate Michelle?”

“I wouldn’t have known how. I had her number that one night, and I forgot where I had written it down. I know that I called up where they were staying (in Palm Springs) and I got no answer in the room where they were.”

“Did you try to contact Michelle’s parents?”

“I don’t know.”

“How long do you believe Jesse stayed in Palm Springs?”

“Two or three days.”

Zonen was very dubious that Jack never saw Jesse in person in Palm Springs, but Jack Hollywood remained adamant on this point. Zonen was also very dubious that Jesse’s mother had not gotten any information out of Jesse, which she passed on to Jack.

Zonen asked, “Have you talked with your son Jesse since discovering about the homicide?”

“He called my cell phone after the homicide was discovered and he indicated that he was going to go to Colorado. He said Bill.”

“Do you know who Bill is?”

“Yeah, Bill Jacques.”

“Did you call Richard Dispenza after you learned that your son would be going to Colorado?”

“I’m not sure if I called him or he called me. I mean, by this time I was in a panic. I didn’t know what was going on. I think I might have called and left a message where he worked or something, and then he called me back.”

“When he called back, did he actually make contact with you?”

“How many days after learning about the killing of Nicholas Markowitz was it that you had this conversation with Richard Dispenza?”

“I think three or four, but I’m not sure.”

“What did you ask Mr. Dispenza . . . what did you tell him?”

“I said, ‘I think my kid is in some kind of trouble. I’m not sure how involved he is or what’s going on, but the last I heard, he was headed that way.’”

“Did you tell him he might be involved in a murder?”

“Because I didn’t . . . one, I didn’t want to say something like that over a phone. I wasn’t sure if Jesse was directly involved with it, and I didn’t want to get specific with him about it.”

“Did you ask Mr. Dispenza if he would call you if he had any contact with your son?”

“I think I did.”

“And did he agree to do so?”

“Did he then call you when he had contact with your son?”

“It wasn’t for a couple of days that he called. He left a message on my home phone, or something like that. I didn’t get a chance to talk to him directly.”

“Did you hear what the message said?”

“Just, ‘Call me back.’ He wanted to talk to me. So I called back and I couldn’t get ahold of him.”

“Did you ever get ahold of him?”

“He got ahold of me, I guess after the FBI had showed up at his house, and he asked me what was going on. And I said, ‘I’m not sure, but the kid is in trouble.’”

Zonen wanted to know if Jack had ever called Bill Jacques in Colorado. Jack answered, “I called his mother, and I told her, ‘I think my kid is in trouble. If he gets in contact with you, have him call me. We need to get him a lawyer. He needs to go and face this thing.’ She (later) said, ‘What’s going on?’ And I said, ‘My kid’s in some trouble.’ And she said, ‘Jesse called and he was, like, two hundred miles away and he asked where Bill was.’ And I guess Bill wasn’t around, because she said, ‘Jesse sounded very upset. Like he was desperate.’”

Zonen asked if anyone else had contacted him about any of this, and Jack answered, “Chris (the man who had leased the Lincoln to Jesse) called me and said that this kid (Chas Saulsbury) had pulled up to his house and got out and said Jesse was in the car, and he wants to talk to his dad. And then he (not clear if it was Saulsbury or Chris) got ahold of me and said, ‘We’re going to meet Jesse at the Sage Brush Inn (in the Los Angeles area).’ I went there and Jesse didn’t show up.

“We (Jack and Chris) sat around there and he told me that the kid (Saulsbury) had come up and dropped him off, and then Chris’s wife called him and said, ‘Come over here.’ And then she just said, ‘Jesse’s going to be at the Country Inn. He’s at room 344 at the Country Inn in Calabasas. ’ So I went out and I called that room and nobody answered. I was kind of waiting at the Sagebrush, waiting around, and then driving around to his friends to see where he might have been, and up near Calabasas where Michelle lived. And I was in a panic. Then I got a call from John Roberts and he said, ‘Come over.’ I was, like, all the way in a different part of town. But I came over, and John told me, ‘Jesse was just here and he wanted me to help him, and he wanted me to get him some ID or something. ’ And John told Jesse, ‘Look, I can’t help you. You need to get a lawyer and turn yourself in.’ At that, Jesse got kind of upset and just walked out, and that was it. I left John’s house and I drove around, looking for him, and the next thing I knew, the police were coming over every night.”

“Have you learned of any individual who has been furnishing your son Jesse [with] money?”

“Do you know where Jesse is today?”

“No, I don’t.”

John Roberts also had some interesting things to tell the grand jury. Most of it was a recitation of his encounters with Stephen Hogg and Jack Hollywood, and the day that Jesse James Hollywood suddenly showed up at his door. Roberts, however, added a few new things. Roberts spoke of cleaning the white van out with bleach after it was returned by Jesse Rugge. And he also said, “I was interviewed by the FBI and they suggested that I turn my answering machine back on. They thought, perhaps, Jesse would call and I’d be able to figure out where he was calling from. He’d say something. But that has not happened.” (Roberts had turned off his answering machine for a spell.)

Asked about Jesse’s drug dealing in the San Fernando Valley, Roberts said that it wasn’t a family enterprise. He claimed that Jack was not supplying Jesse with the marijuana. Roberts testified, “There was no collaboration that I’m aware of. His dad and I were involved together at one time. Sometime ago, but never in conjunction with Jesse. There are so many people out in the Valley that do this. But insofar as Jack and myself are concerned, we never had anything to do with that.”

The most contentious testimony before the grand jury came from Jesse Hollywood’s girlfriend, Michelle Lasher. On the drive to Colorado, she said of Jesse’s behavior, “It was the same as it had always been. He was just acting normal.” These were statements she would contradict later. When it came to their time in Colorado, she was very evasive.

Zonen:	Did you meet a person by the name of Richard Dispenza?
Lasher:	That name doesn’t sound familiar.
Zonen:	Somebody, perhaps, that Jesse might have identified to you as his godfather?
Lasher:	I met an older man. I don’t know who he was.
Zonen:	Were you introduced as Sue to the older man?
Lasher:	I think so.
Zonen:	As of the time of your departure from Colorado, had Jesse discussed any of the events that had taken place in the San Fernando Valley or in Santa Barbara concerning the abduction and killing of Nicholas Markowitz?
Lasher:	No.
Zonen:	Miss Lasher, isn’t it true that you were in Santa Barbara on the seventh of August at the time that Nicholas Markowitz was at Jesse Rugge’s house?
Lasher:	I don’t remember what day it was.
Zonen:	All right. Isn’t it true that you were in Santa Barbara at the time that Nicholas Markowitz was at Jesse Rugge’s house?
Lasher:	I have never seen him (Nick), so I don’t know.
Zonen:	Do you remember driving up there to Santa Barbara?
Lasher:	Yeah.
Zonen:	Which vehicle were you driving in?
Lasher:	I don’t remember. I just remember going there. I don’t remember the details. It didn’t seem out of the ordinary. I’ve been there many times.
Zonen:	By “many times,” how many times is many times?
Lasher:	Probably three times before.
Zonen:	All right. And how long did you stay in Santa Barbara on this last occasion?
Lasher:	Probably a couple of hours. An hour.

Zonen wanted to know if Jesse Hollywood had been dealing drugs, and Michelle shrugged her shoulders. Irritated by this response, Zonen told her, “Miss Lasher, you understand that you have a grant of immunity. Did your attorney explain to you what that meant?”

She said that her lawyer had.

Zonen continued, “What did your attorney explain? What do you understand that to mean?”

She answered, “I have to tell the truth.”

“And what happens if you don’t tell the truth?”

“I’ll get in trouble.”

“Do you know to what extent?”

“I’ll get arrested.”

Zonen responded, “I asked you a question about whether you knew if Jesse Hollywood was dealing drugs, specifically marijuana, and you shrugged your shoulders. Was that the correct answer? Knowing the consequences of what might happen to you if you lie on the witness stand, was that the correct answer?”

“Okay, what did you understand to be Jesse Hollywood’s involvement in the marijuana trade?”

“I don’t know exactly. I wasn’t involved with it.”

“You knew he wasn’t working, is that correct?”

“Yes, but he laid hardwood floors for a while.”

“‘For a while,’ you mean what? It was measured more in weeks or months rather than years during the three years you knew him, isn’t that correct?”

“The overwhelming majority of time that you knew him, this three-year period of time that you were boyfriend and girlfriend, he was not working at any visible job that you could see. You can’t tell me now it was more than a few months?”

“I don’t know how long it was.”

“You have a relationship with him that’s close enough that you’ve put his name on your body tattoo, didn’t you?”

“Yes,” Michelle replied.

“Where is it on your body?”

“On my back.”

“And how large a tattoo is it?”

“It’s about this big.”

“And you’re holding your fingers, what, eight inches apart?” Zonen questioned.

“And what’s the name tattooed on your back?”

“It says, ‘Jesse James.’”

“At the time you decided to put the tattoo on your back, you knew he was something of a gangster, didn’t you?”

“I guess. I mean, I didn’t consider it.”

“Well, you understand that the name ‘Jesse James’ is the name most people associate with a man who was a famous outlaw?”

“Yes, but that’s his name.”

Zonen kept asking how much she knew about Hollywood’s marijuana business, and Michelle kept claiming that she was in the dark about it. Zonen even brought up the fact that Jesse Hollywood had owned one home, and was renting another one in Reseda, in which he and Michelle had lived during 1998 and 1999. Jesse had a lot of money and expensive possessions for someone who worked just part-time.

The subject moved on to why Ben had been angry with Jesse, but Michelle skirted that issue as well by saying that Ben had been angry with a lot of people. Zonen quizzed her on the time that she and Jesse had eaten at BJ’s Microbrewery, where Ben’s girlfriend had worked, and Jesse left without paying, as an insult to Ben. Michelle said that she understood that incident to be because Ben owed Jesse money.

Zonen asked, “When you were driving up to Santa Barbara on this last occasion, did Jesse mention anything to you about Nick Markowitz?”

Zonen replied, “I need to tell you something, Miss Lasher. We have now had two witnesses who have testified in this proceeding (Natasha Adams and Kelly Carpenter) that you were in Santa Barbara at Jesse Rugge’s house at the time that Nick Markowitz was there. Two witnesses have testified that both of them were introduced to you. Both can give a graphic description of you, and you have to agree that description’s easy to give. They both have a description of a brunette, pretty and petite. One of them said that she believed your name was Michelle. So, do you remember being introduced to two young women, both about the age of seventeen?”

Michelle answered that she recalled being introduced to “a bunch of girls” in Santa Barbara, but that she didn’t recall the girls Zonen was talking about.

Zonen replied, “I’m finding it difficult to believe that Jesse Hollywood brought you to Jesse Rugge’s house, after he had been instrumental in kidnapping Nicholas Markowitz, knowing that Nicholas Markowitz was there at Rugge’s house, without telling you something about what was going on. Would you like to take a moment and talk with your attorney before you resume your testimony?”

Michelle said that she would, and conferred a short time with her lawyer. After she was through, Zonen asked, “During the time that you were at Jesse Rugge’s house, did anybody talk to you about Nicholas Markowitz?”

“Would you have recognized the name?”

“Only as being the same last name as Ben’s. I didn’t know his brother.”

“Are you being completely honest with us today?”

“During the time Jesse’s been a fugitive, he hasn’t contacted you?”

“Hasn’t sent you any letters?”

“Nobody has contacted you and said that they’ve spoken to Jesse Hollywood and he wants to convey a message to you?”

“You made the statement at one point to officers who interviewed you about when you were in Colorado. You said, ‘Jesse began to act like a shithead!’ Do you remember that statement?”

“I make that statement a lot,” Michelle replied.

“What is that in reference to?”

“He’s an asshole!”

“In what fashion?”

“He would say mean things.”

“Like what?”

“Putting me down.”

“Tell us what you mean?”

“He would tell me I wasn’t smart, sometimes.”

“Regularly?”

“Do you consider him to be your boyfriend now?”

“What are you going to do with the tattoo?”

“Get it removed.”

At the end of all the testimony, the grand jury found that evidence against the four individuals—William Skidmore, Jesse Rugge, Ryan Hoyt and Graham Pressley—was sufficient to send the cases directly to trial, skipping the preliminary hearing process. This meant that a judge could not reduce charges or dismiss them, nor could the defense attorneys question the witnesses that Ron Zonen had just questioned. Jesse Rugge’s lawyer told a reporter, “It’s unfortunate that in such a serious case that defendants, through their lawyers, were not able to examine the evidence.” One thing that Crouter and the other defense lawyers didn’t have to worry about was a rush to justice. Plenty of evidence was still being gathered, cataloged and analyzed. There wouldn’t be any trials for almost a year.