Thanks for joining us.
It’s a pleasure.
I wonder if I could ask you, as the Primate of the church, about your opposition to the ordination of women…
Could I just pause there momentarily? You say, ‘as the Primate of the church’…was that the expression you used?
I thought you were the Primate of the church.
No, I’m a primate in the church but I’m certainly not the Primate.
How many primates are there?
In the church?
Yes.
There are many thousands of them obviously. Some of them are opposed to the ordination of women and then there’s a completely different group of course, who are dead against it.
Are you opposed to the ordination of women?
Yes I am, and could I preempt your next question by saying that this is not a discriminatory thing against, ahm…
Women.
Pardon?
Women.
Where?
No, the discrimination, it’s not against women.
Oh no, there’s nothing they can do about it. How can they help it? It’s just bad luck.
Why are the primates you hang around with opposed to the ordination of women? Aren’t some of the primates in favour of the ordination of women?
Yes, some of them are, but most of the ones I hang about with are opposed to it.
Why?
Because it’s unconstitutional. The constitution of the church specifically forbids it.
But surely the constitution can be changed?
Under certain circumstances that’s possible.
How?
Well, the expression for instance, ‘as we move forward into the twelfth century’, that was changed.
To ‘the twentieth’.
Well, that’s a fairly radical suggestion, but we’d certainly give you a hearing.
The point I’m trying to make here is, aren’t you cutting the church off from society at the very time when it needs to become relevant to the community?
I beg your pardon. The church is going through a very successful phase at the moment.
Aren’t numbers down?
Numbers are not down, no. I was at the church this afternoon and the turnout was extremely encouraging.
What was the occasion?
The occasion will interest you actually. It was the birthday of one of our very youngest members in the congregation: young Terry.
How old was he?
Young Terry?
Yes.
He’d be eighty-seven.
Look, can I ask where you’re going to get people entering the ministry if you’re not going to allow women who are otherwise fully qualified to get in?
Obviously we’re going to recruit from the ranks of men.
But where are they going to come from?
There are plenty of people. I, for instance, could have a try.
You could be ordained as a minister?
Of course.
But what are your qualifications?
(Rising from seat, his hand goes towards his fly.) I’ll show you my qualifications. (Freeze.)