Kathy and Jobynski were driven to their apartments in an armored limousine. It was a building on Harvard campus. A female FBI agent accompanied Kathy. Heidrick spent the night on a cot in Jobynski's room. The four had an early breakfast. Kathy and Jobynski discussed their notes and points to be stressed or by-passed.
At 10am Steve Kroft of 60 Minutes was escorted into the room. "Ms. Connors, Professor Jobynski I hope both of you are well enough to be interviewed."
"Yes, Kathy said, "We'll need a few minutes to prepare."
"Certainly," Kroft said. "The make up people are being searched. Were either of you injured in yesterday's attack?"
"Shaken up," Jobynski said.
"I'm recommending we not discuss the incident," Kathy said. "We are certain to be called as witnesses."
"Your statements to the police are in the newspapers, TV and the internet," Kroft said.
"How could that be?" Jobynski asked.
"One of the news services paid a hundred thousand dollars for a copy of the original transcript," Kroft said.
Before Kathy could respond she heard Heidrick say into his lapel phone, "Find out who leaked and bought the transcripts.” He looked up and said, "Please, continue."
"Is it true," Kroft asked, "you've limited our discussion?"
"To overpopulation," Jobynski said, "mankind's most pressing problem."
"Off the record," Kroft asked, "Can you tell me what God looks like?"
"No," Jobynski said.
"The Ewarts say he is the mass murderer Reverend Paul Smith."
"Oh shit!" Kathy said. "Mr. Kroft, Could you please leave us for a moment."
Kathy waited until Steve Kroft left the room. She asked Jobynski, "What are you going to do if Kroft asks questions we don't want to answer?
"I tell him so." Jobynski said,
"That may go over with Kroft but not when we meet the panel and that little wildcat…."
"Dotty Moxon?"
"She'll have you for dinner."
"Let's get through this interview," Jobynski said. "We'll worry about her later."
"Remember," Kathy said, "Kroft wants an interesting show. We want to use him as a foil to reach the public."
Two very nervous make-up people entered the room followed by a three man camera crew and Ted Heidrick.
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The Interview:
A room in the building on campus where Jobynski and Kathy slept was made to look like Jobynski's office. The shelves, books, pictures and framed diplomas were all his. He and Kathy were seated in front of the desk facing Steve Kroft.
"Please talk to me as if the cameras weren't here," Kroft said. "We usually film ten minutes for every minute shown. How many minutes appear on TV depends on the producer, the cutting room and me. If you wish filming to stop, say so. I'm now going to record the introduction. A camera moved in for a close up.
"I am Steve Kroft. This is Sixty Minutes. The story you are about to hear is taking place as we speak. The names Vinegar Joe Jobynski and Ms. Kathy Connors Esq. were unfamiliar to most of us until this Tuesday. These two very bright people, one a renowned defense lawyer the other a Professor of Quantum Physics at Harvard where we are filming. They became known to the world on Fox's News. The title of that show was, "God is Dead!" To everyone's surprise Professor Jobynski and Attorney Connors claimed to have spoken with God. To my knowledge Ms. Connors has a casual relationship with the Protestant religion. Professor Jobynski a former priest was on the fast track to promotion in the Vatican when he left the Catholic Church. On the Fox program there wasn't time to question them about their meeting with God. We wanted to do that. They would only agree to be interviewed by Sixty Minutes if we restricted our questions to the subject they wish to discuss. We agreed to listen. If it suits our audience we will show it. Several events have taken place since Tuesday. Yesterday there was an assassination attempt on Ms. Connors and the Professor Jobynski. Their bungalow was completely destroyed. They were saved by a voice telling the Professor to leave immediately. It's time to meet these two fascinating people."
Steve Kroft sat opposite Kathy and Jobynski and asked, "Did either of you consider the danger of revealing your meeting with God?"
"No," Kathy said.
"Professor, was it God who warned you to leave the bungalow before the explosion."
"The voice was not God's."
"Who then?" Kroft asked.
"We don't know," Kathy said.
"You heard the voice also?"
"Not that particular message. We are here to deliver God's message. Not discuss the voices."
"And what is that message?" Kroft asked.
"We are in the Eighth Day of Creation," Kathy said.
"What does it mean?"
"It heralds a new era in the history of mankind," Kathy said. "Until now God took responsibility for preserving nature. Man can no longer take nature or God for granted. The abundance of fuel, food, and water are limited. Man must husband nature and serve God."
"Why has God chosen now to relinquish his protection of nature?" Kroft asked.
"Man dictated the timing." Jobynski said. "The world's population has reached its saturation point. In twenty years their will be no more oil. Fresh water will be as expensive as fuel. Right now, forty-thousand children die of malnutrition every day. In thirty years edible fish from the oceans will be as rare as the American buffalo. The Seven Seas have become cesspools for human waste."
"Aren't you exaggerating?" Kroft asked. "I quote from an article by Steve Busam, 'Since the 1960's, world food supply per capita has increased 27% and the world food production improved 20%. The world oil reserves have been augmented from 100 billion cubic meters in 1980 to 158 billion cubic meters in 1993. Only 50% of the world's arable land is used. Grain production has increased…." (Overpopulation: The World's Problem)
Kathy ran a search on her laptop but before she found the Busam article Jobynski answered without notes. "It took 123 years from 1804 to 1927 for the world to produce its second billion people," Jobynski said. "Yet it took just thirteen years from 1974 to 1987, to produce three billion more. (UN Population Division). …Today in 2012 we are seven billion."
"In the past science and technology always solved these problems," Kroft said.
"Isn't it logical," Kathy asked, "that eventually the earth will no longer contain enough natural resources to sustain life on this planet?"
"It sounds logical," Kroft said, "but when will the shortages begin to take place?"
"It's happening now," Kathy said.
"But isn't there actually enough food?" Kroft asked. "The problem is a matter of distribution?"
"It's more complicated than that," Kathy said. "Busam writes of China, home to 1/5th of the world's population. The Chinese raised the standard of living of their people by education, industrialization and foreign trade. This led to an increase in per capita wealth. The improvement resulted in a better diet, healthier people and a demand for more food. Chinese today are physically better off and living longer. This increased the population and the per capita consumption. Before this, China exported 8 million tons of grain, now it imports 16 million tons a year. This caused a world grain shortage. The resulting price rise made food unaffordable in other parts of the world creating famines. Millions died. As we sit here, Somalia is suffering famine because of China’s progress. "
Overpopulation," Jobynski said, "pollutes our environment, depletes natural resources and creates a strain on social ties. The world is a Global Village. We travel faster and communicate quicker than our social orders are prepared for. The population increase reduces the individual's influence on their social, physical and political environment. In 1900 there were two hundred thousand people in an American Congressional District. Today there are seven hundred thousand. To increase the number of Congressmen would give better access, but decrease the efficiency of Congress. Today the same number of Congressmen represent three and a half times more people than before. Representative government in America is a fallacy.
"My figures indicate a reduced number of births in 63 countries," Kroft said.
"Those are developed nations where the life span is now longer." Kathy replied. "Undeveloped countries host the population explosion. The Catholic Church is the world's most powerful opponent of controlled population. The church uses its money, political and religious influence to stop abortions and birth control. The church opposes family planning, sex education, the use of condoms and financial incentives to reduce births."
"Aren't fundamentalist Christians, Jews and Muslims also opposed to restrictive family planning?" Kroft asked.
"Yes," Jobynski said. "Only two nations effectively reduced their birth rate. China and Japan, neither is influenced by Judaeo-Christian morality."
"Are you saying that western religion is bad for the future of mankind?" Kroft asked.
"Some of their teachings threaten the future of humanity," Jobynski said.
"Has God offered a solution?" Kroft asked.
"Yes," Kathy said. "Man is commanded to go out and populate the universe."
Kroft remained silent as the camera zoomed in. The impact of the statement etched deeper lines on his face. He asked, "Do you mean space travel?"
"Exactly," Kathy said. "Man was made in the image of God and is now commanded to go forth and populate other planets."
"Are you saying we will become like God?" Kroft asked.
"We were created In His image," Kathy said. "But man will never achieve the status of God Almighty."
"But mass space travel is impossible," Kroft said.
"So was man's ability to imitate a bird," Jobynski said. "Now we fly at speeds and heights no bird ever did. Ten years ago the internet was inconceivable. In the field of Quantum Physics we are like cavemen with a stick writing in the mud."
" As a scientist," Kroft said, "you are going against everything we know of space travel. Since nothing can exceed the speed of light it will take hundreds of years before we can reach the outer edge of our universe."
"It is you who is selling science short," Jobynski said. "We will find a way."
"How can you be certain?" Kroft asked.
"God told us." Jobynski said.
"What will we do on these other planets?" Kroft asked.
"Create life and direct it as we were." Jobynski answered.
Steve Kroft took a deep breath and said. "I believe science, knowledge and wisdom will provide the answer to overpopulation."
"You don't understand," Jobynski said.
"What is it I don't understand?" Kroft challenged.
"We are looking up a Dead Horse's Ass!" Jobynski said. "And all you see up there is (BLEEP).
"I was wondering when the vinegar would seep through." Kroft said.
"It is the only way Ms. Connors and I can make you and the viewing audience understand, there is no alternative to leaving this planet."
"There must be an alternative," Kroft fired back.
"You agreed," Kathy said, "that the natural resources of the earth are finite."
"Yes," Kroft replied.
"And that space on this planet is limited. People are living longer and overpopulation is a problem."
"All true," Kroft said. "But science and technology has always found solutions."
"You speak of physical solutions," Jobynski said. "The crisis is also social."
"What social problems are you speaking of?" Kroft asked.
"Do you want the answer in alphabetical or chronological order?" Jobynski asked.
"Up to you Professor."
"Nations presently at war!" Jobynski said and recited from memory;
Aceh peace
Afghan turmo il
Angola recovery
Burundi transition
Cambodia recovery
Central African Republic troubles
Chad troubles
Chechnya and the North Caucasus
Colombia displacement
Congo (Brazzaville) troubles
Congo (DR) conflict
Darfur conflict
East Sudan insurgency
East Timor nation-building
Eritrea-Ethiopia border
Ethiopia Ogaden crisis
Georgia, Abkhazia, S. Ossetia
Guinea unrest
Haiti troubles
India's northeastern clashes
Indian Maoist violence
Iraq in turmoil
Israeli-Palestinian conflict
Ivory Coast unrest
Kashmir dispute
Kenya violence
Kosovo future
Kyrgyzstan violence 2010
Lebanon crisis
Liberian reconstruction
Libya turmoil
Myanmar troubles
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict
Nepal disruptions
Niger-Mali Tuareg unrest
Nigeria violence
Pakistan violence
Papua tensions
Philippines-Mindanao conflict
Rwanda legacy
Sierra Leone justice
Somalia in turmoil
South Sudan fragile peace
Sri Lanka conflict
Sudan conflicts
Thailand's southern violence
Transdniestria-Moldova dispute
Uganda violence
Western Sahara dispute
Yemen clashes
Zimbabwe crisis
(From ALERTNET INSIGHT on the Internet)
"I've listed fifty countries presently in combative disputes," Jobynski said. "Only one is currently at peace. Aceh, because the 2004 Tsunami devastated both sides in that island's war. Not on this list are the U. S. and NATO countries presently engaged in hostilities and mid-eastern countries such as Syria, Egypt, Palestine, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. ."
" Professor, to use a phrase of yours, " Kroft said, "What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?"
"It has everything to do with overpopulation," Jobynski said. "We've become a Global Village. Our societies are now rubbing against each other causing friction and countless irritations. Nations relieve these social irritants by War."
"Experiments were begun in the 1960's using laboratory rats," Kathy Connors said. "They were given all the food, and water they needed. The only restriction was space. The animals lived well and in peace until the population increased. They began to separate into groups. These groups formed gangs. They fought other groups. Remember there was always enough food and water. The fights were over space. Researchers began to notice homosexual tendencies among the animals. Still, the population continued to grow. Researchers found rats producing a gender unseen before. It was a neuter. Neither male nor female, it could not reproduce. Fights between gangs became more frequent and vicious. They killed each other until reasonable living space was attained."
"What did they do with the dead bodies?" Kroft asked.
"Cannibalized them," Kathy said. "Eventually all the rats died of disease caused by feces and the remains of dead rats."
"They polluted their own environment!" Kroft said.
"Yes," Kathy said.
"And you believe these experiments on rats applicable to humans?"
"The Professor's list of nations at war confirms the aggressiveness," Kathy said. "Universal anti-pollution laws prove the toxic-waste problem; laws condoning same sex marriages by religions and governments indicate humans are restricting their numbers by natural selection."
"How can you apply experiments with animals to humans who think and reason? Animals cannot."
"There is more to it than mental ability," Jobynski said. "In 1965 there was a brain enrichment experiment. It proved the human brain could be physically altered and improved by environment. The cerebral cortex is influenced by its environment before birth and throughout ones life. Examinations of brains from college educated people were more developed than those with a high school education. If positive environment can increase brain power it is logical to assume that negativity is detrimental to the brain's development."
"Was it proven?" Kroft asked.
Yes," Jobynski said, "in mammals, insects and humans."
"You’re a scientist," Steve Kroft said. "Don't you believe science will find a way around this problem?"
"God has given us the answer," Jobynski said. "Science and religion will work together in our efforts to travel between the stars."
"It is a command from God." Kathy said.
"But it's unreasonable." Kroft said. "It is intellectually unacceptable."
"All, scientific and social laws based on the intellect are questionable," Kathy said. "They are subject to correction, modification and reinterpretation. The history of science is a record of building up and breaking down ideas, theories and laws. Reason is not always reliable when dealing with problems of social order."
"You mean overpopulation?" Kroft asked.
"Yes," Kathy answered.
"How can you discard reason as a means of problem solving?"
"I don't discard it," Kathy said. "We must be wary of it. Look at our societies. They are weakened by social permissiveness. Prostitution, drugs and homosexuality are now authorized by states and sanctified by religions."
"How can you decry homosexuality if overpopulation is the problem?" Kroft asked.
"Leviticuas 18:5: "Thou shall keep my laws and ordinances and live by them." Kathy said, "The key words are to live by them. If we keep procreating at the rate we are now, mankind is doomed."
"Then isn't homosexuality positive in respect to overpopulation?”
"Not so," Kathy said. "The increase in homosexuality is in response to the problem of overpopulation. A 1994 in depth study of homosexuals showed that 95% of these people were nurtured into this life style. Only 5% were influenced by nature or their genetic makeup. To me this is an indication of the influence of overpopulation."
"You have your beliefs and I mine," Kroft said.
"Ours isn't a belief in God," Kathy said. "We know God is. We spoke with Him."
"Did God command you to suspend reason as a means of finding a solution?" Kroft asked.
"You misquote me," Kathy said. "Reason can be bewildered. Reason is not always reliable."
"Please explain that," Kroft said.
"Reason is derived from life experiences," Kathy said. "Society influences those experiences and therefore shapes our thoughts and decisions. Mr. Kroft, I ask you, may we kill an infant?"
"Certainly not!" Steve Kroft replied.
"That's a reasonable answer," Kathy said. "What about the fetus in a womb?" Kroft paled. Kathy continued, "Something like this confuses the intellect. Is abortion murder or is one only a human being after birth? May we kill the child to save the mother? If so why can't we do away with a two year old who is preventing the mother from a wonderful future rather than one of poverty, prostitution and despair? The intellect becomes confused and reason compromised. When is one, considered a person? Legally, a genetic code must exist and have the ability to communicate. The fetus has the former but not the latter. Or, is movement in the womb a means of communication. Now the intellect is entirely confused. Where does mercy end and murder begin?" Kathy asked. "Man's ability to reason is in a dilemma, unreliable and inconsistent according to society's dictates. God's words stand. They are immutable."
"What does God say about abortion?" Kroft asked.
"The fetus is to be treated as any human being," Kathy said. "It is to be protected unless the embryo threatens the mother's life. The unborn child is then considered to be a deadly stalker."
"Is birth control acceptable to God?"
"Yes," Kathy said.
"But God told Adam and all mankind 'to be fruitful and multiply?"
"He also told us these laws are meant to live by."
"If God is all knowing why didn't He foresee the problem of overpopulation," Kroft said. "Either He knew and didn't want to help us or He is not the God we conceive.”
"Any conception of God is wrong by definition," Jobynski said. "No one can understand God."
"But you and Ms. Connors claim to know Him?"
"The only thing we know is, that God is real and concerned about the future of mankind," Jobynski said.
"Then why doesn't God give us a solution or intervene to solve the problem?"
"He sent Ms. Connors and me to inform and counsel you."
"Why did God choose you?" Kroft asked.
"We don't know?" Kathy said.
"If God is all powerful why doesn't he fix the problem?" Kroft asked.
"Man is in a relationship with God," Jobynski said.
"Then God should help us," Kroft said.
"He already has and is helping. But he wants man’s active participation. God could have given us bread. Instead He gave us wheat and we make bread," Jobynski said. "He gave us trees and we build homes. The Lord who created the earth, stars and universe could have done what you ask. Your question is why He didn't?"
"Can you tell me?" Kroft asked.
"He wanted a partner in creation," Kathy said. "That is why we were made in His image.
"Are you saying man is to become like God?"
"We'll answer that question on Fox panel news program this Tuesday," Jobynski said.
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