MATTEO RENZI

Matteo Renzi is the leader of the Partito Democratico (Democratic Party) of Italy. He was prime minster between February 2014 and December 2016.

As Mayor of Florence, Matteo Renzi invited RFK Human Rights to open our Italian headquarters there, in a thousand year old building used as a cloistered convent and later as a juvenile prison. One of my favorite photos of Daddy dominates Renzi’s Rome office. Harry Benson took it at the Saint Patrick’s Day parade in New York, on March 17, 1968, the day after Daddy announced he was running for president.

Matteo Renzi: I first remember my mother speaking about Bobby Kennedy when I was in primary school. She told me: “A man who was a minister in John Kennedy’s government decided to send the army to ensure that young colored men could study in the university.” She was talking about 1963—I was then about ten years old. My mother also told me about the problems in South Africa. She told me about apartheid. We discussed the history of slavery in the United States, and then we came to the story of the Alabama students whom Bob Kennedy helped get into the university.

At the time, there were many scandals involving politicians in Italy, and she said it didn’t have to be that way.

We talked about this man, Robert Francis Kennedy, Bobby, RFK, as a point of reference for a generation. So I read a book about him, and he became a point of reference for me, too.

A few years later, as a high school student in 1992, I read a book of his speeches. I remember the speech about the gross national product. It was one of the most famous in Italy. He said, “Non misura né il nostro spirito né il nostro coraggio, né la nostra saggezza né la nostra conoscenza, né la nostra compassione né la nostra devozione al nostro paese, misura tutto, in breve, tranne quello che rende la vita degna d’essere vissuta.”

KK: That’s from his speech in Kansas, actually the day after the photo was taken, March 18. He said that the GNP “measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country, it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile.”

MR: Yes. The first time I stayed up watching an election was November 1992, Clinton-Gore. When I ran for office, first as a university student, then for president of Tuscany, and after for mayor of Florence, I wove RFK quotes into my speeches. One I often used was: “Alcuni uomini guardano le cose come sono e chiedono: perché? Io sogno cose non ancora esistite e chiedo: perché no?”

KK: That’s how he ended his stump speeches in 1968: “Some men see things as they are and ask why? I dream things that never were and ask: Why not? “

MR: “Perchè no? “OK, we can change, so why not?” I think it is one of the most powerful messages of the new generation, before the arrival of “Yes, we can.” “Why not?” and “Yes, we can” have the same message of hope: Hope stands against hate.

I have always been active with Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, and I remember a discussion with my Scout groups about Bob Kennedy in 2006 or 2007. I think it was for the 400th anniversary of the city of Florence, and we showed the film Bobby, in schools throughout the city.

KK: Your focus on youth is only natural, because you were, and still are, so young. You were almost the youngest mayor of Florence and the youngest prime minister.

MR: I became president of the province at twenty-nine and prime minister when I was thirty-nine.

Of course, I have used a quote from your father about youth: “Questo mondo richiede le qualità dei giovani: non un periodo della vita, ma uno stato mentale, un temperamento della volontà, una qualità dell’immaginazione, una predominanza del coraggio sulla timidezza; dell’appetito per l’avventura sulla vita tranquilla.”

KK: “The world demands the qualities of youth. Not a time of life, but a state of mind, a temper of the will, a quality of the imagination, a predominance of courage over timidity, an appetite for adventure over the life of ease.”

MR: I consider this absolutely true, and I hope it’s true for me. The point is that today’s political leaders need to change, especially in Italy. For twenty years the public debate was about the age of politicians. I became prime minister in part to disrupt the old generation. So my message is that youth is not simply carta d’identità—your ID card, your years—but it’s a quality, a state of mind.

KK: One of the things you’re known for is trying, as you said, to disrupt, to create change, not for the sake of disruption, but for the sake of the future and to make the country better. As a political leader, how do you effectively confront the enemies of change?

MR: This is a very important point, particularly in this moment, when a lot of people are afraid of the future and of change. Technological innovation, for instance, is inevitable, but it means change, and people are scared because those changes can be dangerous. But if you really believe in progress, you know that innovation creates the possibility for a better tomorrow. It’s not easy to reconcile faith in the future, in change, in progress, and endure the pain and the suffering of people on the margins, particularly poor people. Your father combined a message of hope for future generations while expressing deep concern for people who were poor, black, elderly, vulnerable. This permitted him to be the only white leader to enter the ghetto during the terrible moments after the death of Martin Luther King and to have the respect of the poor people. This is the challenge for us today. The new generation of people on the left have a great vision for the future. This is good. I respect my past but I love my future. My country is looking toward the future; it is not nostalgic. At the same time, we must help people who are facing difficulties, we cannot forget them. That is the lesson of Robert F. Kennedy, this capacity to have vision, lead change, create progress, but at the same time have empathy and compassion and help for people who are suffering.

KK: You’ve embraced the Third Way as progressive social policy matched to fiscal restraint, but some have said that is the vision of government that has predominated in Europe over the last twenty-three years and that it is exactly the current establishment that young people who are antiestablishment are fighting against.

MR: The Third Way started with Tony Blair’s emphasis on education—not liberalism, investment, or the economy. Another piece of it was to be tough on crime while being serious about addressing the causes of crime. So the Third Way means a lot of things. As an economic strategy, it was good for the nineties, for Bill Clinton and Tony Blair. But it is a model for the past, not today. Now we need a different economic strategy, particularly in Europe. I’ve fought against the austerity policies of the European Commission and European institutions.

KK: The Third Way is associated, as you say, with Clinton and Tony Blair, and they were the disruptive youth of their generation. You’re a different generation.

MR: Absolutely. And Justin Trudeau in Canada is a different generation, and Emmanuel Macron in France is a different generation. We’re not the Third Way. We haven’t a name. Perhaps this is the millennial generation of leaders. Of course, Justin is older than me.

KK: So much older. He’s forty-five, and you are only forty-two…

MR: I joke with Angela Merkel because during G20 she told me, “Justin is younger than you.” “No, Angela, I am younger than Justin. Justin is more beautiful than me, but not younger!”

The situation is not easy, but there are a lot of leaders around the world who grew up with a great message from your father, and we are giving that message of change, empathy, and hope to the next generation.

KK: Will you be prime minister again?

MR: It is not possible to say. Italy has had sixty-four governments in seventy-one years. Twenty-eight different prime ministers. So governments don’t last very long. My government was the fourth-longest out of sixty-four. This is the approach to checks and balances in Italy, but it means there is little stability for the government, and that is a problem. My idea was to create a better model through constitutional reform, but unfortunately, we lost.

The traditional politician in Italy spends his entire life in office, but that’s not my intention. If I return to the prime minister’s office, I imagine I’ll focus great attention on innovation, technology, the environment, cities, and culture. I’d like to help Italy and to change Europe.

KK: If you don’t see yourself as a career politician, what do you want to do long-term?

MR: When I lost the referendum, I preferred to end my political career. I resigned as the leader of the Partito Democratico, I resigned as prime minister, and I told myself, “Okay, this is the time to start a new life.” I was very excited about a great new experience. Unfortunately, I listened to a lot of people, starting with my wife, my team, and my friends, who told me, “It’s stupid to stop now, because a lot of people believe in this idea of change.” I decided to continue in politics for now, but if I think about my future I see being at a university, studying and writing books. My other dream is winning the Championship of Italy with Fiorentina, our football team.

KK: I wish Fiorentina all the luck! Now could you tell me about your Democratic Party app?

MR: Yes, of course. The traditional approach to political organizing in Italy is top down, disseminated through the six thousand sezioni, or Democratic Party clubs across the country. They hold meetings, put on events, offer educational opportunities, and so forth. But now we can do much more using technology, so we created an app. The app permits us to communicate a message of hope, of change, of investment in the future. The one man who personifies empathy, grassroots involvement, high values, and a brilliant future is Bob Kennedy. For that reason, the app is called Bob.

KK: That’s beautiful.

MR: I used the name—I’m so sorry just to take it.

KK: I imagine he’d be pleased.

MR: The application is here. Bob PD. The Partito Democratico with the inspiration of Bob Kennedy.

I want to say that I’m really glad to be talking with you about your father and to tell you that Bob Kennedy first, in the narrative of my mother, was a myth. He was a global brand in my mind, not a man. Then I read about his history, and there I learned about his personality, his success, his problems, the difficulties he faced, and the results he was able to achieve. I understood all that very clearly so I showed the students the movie about him. That is why now I want his name to continue to be on the minds of the next generation, as a model of values, empathy, compassion, and vision. For that reason, we call the app Bob. For every mobile phone there can be the PD Bob. This human being, Bob Kennedy, is our model for living for others.