Filmed 3 March 1989
From the videocassette in NFF, 1992, box 5, transcribed by Elizabeth O’Grady. Dated from Jane Widdicombe’s list. The interview was taped for the Lifetime television program on CTV and broadcast on 14 March 1989 as part of a week of interviews of prominent Canadians over the age of fifty. The interviewer was Stephen Ashton. In NFF, 1991, box 41, file 1 is a transcription of the “pre-interview” in which possible questions and answers were run through to avoid unpleasant surprises on air. Refreshingly candid, this transcript has been cited occasionally in notes.
Helen Frye had died on 4 August 1986; on 27 July 1988 Frye married Elizabeth Eedy Brown. The second Mrs. Frye was a former classmate of Frye’s in the Class of 1933 who had studied modern languages. She had been married to Liberal politician James Brown until he died in 1974.1
ASHTON: In July of last year, a loving union was announced that captivated the imaginations of all Canadians. Dr. Northrop Frye, one of the most influential scholars of this century, was getting married. For both him and Elizabeth, his bride-to-be, it was a second marriage. Now there may be nothing too special about that, but what brought the romantic out in all of us, I think, was that Northrop and Elizabeth had known each other since their university days. They were part of the Class of ‘33 at Victoria College in Toronto, and when they exchanged vows for the second time, each was in their mid-seventies. Theirs is a heart-warming story, and here to tell us about it, the newly-married couple themselves, Professor and Mrs. Northrop Frye. Welcome to Lifetime. As you know we’re talking all this week about life as a different kind of adventure than it used to be. Mrs. Frye, I think there was a time that, when people who were in their seventies got married, people reacted with surprise, even shock. Any of that in this situation?
ELIZABETH FRYE: Absolutely not. We were amazed about that. We thought there’d be all sorts of flak about these two oldsters getting married but we just said, “Well, we met at sixteen and we married at seventy-six and we’re having a wonderful time.” Isn’t that right?
FRYE: Oh yes, everybody seemed to think it was a wonderful idea.
ASHTON: So, no shock, no surprise, but you have quite an extended family: children, grandchildren, and so on. Did they say, “Good for you, Mom. Good for you, Grandma!”
ELIZABETH FRYE: Every last one did. We were waiting for somebody to make a little fuss, but they didn’t.
ASHTON: In fact, the wedding itself … it was a very small private ceremony, is that correct?
ELIZABETH FRYE: That’s right, yes. We decided on Monday we’d be married and we were married on Wednesday.
FRYE: Phoned another ‘33 classmate who was a clergyman and asked him to come up and hitch us as we leaned against the piano.2
ASHTON: It was done in your own home then?
FRYE and ELIZABETH FRYE: Yes.
ASHTON: Well, that’s kind of wonderful. And there was in fact a big party afterwards, with all the well-wishers.
FRYE: A reception, yes.
ELIZABETH FRYE: Yes, a supper. Oh, you mean a big reception at the College. Oh, yes.
ASHTON: I know that you exchanged vows in a very intimate way, but there were so many people who wanted to wish you well.
ELIZABETH FRYE: Then we had a reception a week or two afterwards.
ASHTON: You two have experienced something that I think probably a lot of people in our audience have experienced: the loss of a spouse, and the void that that creates when someone who’s been there for so many years, whom we love very much, is suddenly gone. It’s impossible to describe until it happens, but is a “void” the right word, Mrs. Frye?
ELIZABETH FRYE: I don’t know whether that’s the right word. I’d say probably it was a little closer to confusion. You just wonder, Well, now what happens?
ASHTON: Suddenly you’re alone.
ELIZABETH FRYE: Yes.
ASHTON: They say what you ought to do is try and fill up your life as much as possible, to try and take your mind off the fact that there has been this loss. Did you approach it that way?
ELIZABETH FRYE: Partly, and also I listened to the advice of my children, who said, Don’t make any decision for one year at least, don’t make any new plans, just go on as you are and keep doing the things that you enjoy for a whole year and then at that time you may be able to make a new decision.
ASHTON: And gradually your emotions become a little more balanced. Professor Frye, can you remember your feelings, if I’m not prying too much?
FRYE: Oh yes, my feelings were a little different. Elizabeth had the support of a large affectionate family and I didn’t have a family. It was just unutterably horrible for nearly two years.
ASHTON: After a marriage of that length, to suddenly be alone. Some people say it’s hard to carry on when that person’s gone. Did those feelings ever go through you?
FRYE: That was the feeling I had, yes, that I was just living with half a body.
ASHTON: And yet, your scholarship’s so well known one would think, Oh well, he has his work, but for some reason—
FRYE: Oh, I had my work, of course I carried on with that.
ASHTON: But it doesn’t take the place of another person in your life.
FRYE: Not in the least.
ASHTON: I want to open the yearbook here and get us on to a brighter subject. I love looking at old yearbooks. This is not the oldest that I’ve ever seen—I’ve seen my own grandfather’s. This is the Class of ‘33. Let’s go up into this corner. Professor Frye, how do you remember this young lady when you first met her at the University of Toronto?
FRYE: Just like that.
ASHTON: You were Elizabeth Eedy at that time.
ELIZABETH FRYE: Yes, that is I, I think.
ASHTON: What type of personality did she have then, Professor Frye?
FRYE: Well, very much the same type she has now. Very captivating young person.
ASHTON: Gregarious, outgoing. Let’s pan across the page, to use our television term, over to a gentleman over here and, Mrs. Frye, it’s the gentleman beneath my finger there, a very, very bright student, this guy, right? Tell me about Northrop Frye as he was then.
ELIZABETH FRYE: Well, he was a very interesting young sixteen-year old who had read nearly every play in the English language, and he was very fond of typewriting.
ASHTON: In fact he won a typing contest. Is that how you got from Moncton to Toronto, on scholarship as a typist?
FRYE: Yes, at least my way was paid up, which was something in those days.
ASHTON: We’re also young when we’re in college, and it’s hard to imagine what mark people will make on the world. I guess your class must have been quite impressed by what Mr. Frye was able to accomplish.
ELIZABETH FRYE: Well, sure, everyone in the year who accomplished something different and interesting was very much looked up to. And they seem to survive the longest, that’s the strange thing.
ASHTON: You’re a great class. Now one of the things that happens between people’s university years and the years which they call the “golden” or “senior” years, or whatever term is in vogue, is that people get set in their ways. And when you come together in a union like yours, is it difficult? Because all of a sudden you’re living with someone? Professor Frye, what would you say?
FRYE: I don’t find it difficult in the least because we have this large block of friends in common. And as I say, all of Elizabeth’s family rallied around, and it seemed to need an absolute minimum in the way of adjustment. Just no difficulty that I experienced.
ASHTON: Elizabeth, did you feel the same way, that you just fit together as simply as that?
ELIZABETH FRYE: Yes, really, yes. And for me there wasn’t any adjustment in having to get to know a whole bunch of grandchildren, as my husband did. He’s had to adjust—
ASHTON: Was that fun? Or was it confusing?
FRYE: Oh yes.
ASHTON: Bit of both?
FRYE: Well, it was a little startling to have all this instant progeny of three children and five grandchildren, to say nothing of assorted sisters- and brothers-in-law.
ASHTON: Have you found it’s brought zest back to your work to have the companionship that you obviously have now, the love back in your life? Is it affecting you quite profoundly?
FRYE: Oh yes, I think so—in all sorts of ways that I don’t recognize at the moment but will later.
ASHTON: Are you the type of man to wake up whistling in the morning?… Perhaps not. You have a philosophy, Mrs. Frye, I believe, about just making the most out of the time that you’ve got. You love being outdoors and birdwatching … tell us about how much that factors in your life.
ELIZABETH FRYE: Well, I like to do different things. I mean, one thing different from another and in another area really, and I do love being out of doors and I do love travelling and I’m very fond of people.
ASHTON: And the kind of exchange you can have with your husband. It’s all part of staying young, I suppose. People often say—apparently your mother said this too—“I may be eighty years old but I still feel like a young girl.” Do you feel that way a bit?
ELIZABETH FRYE: Quite a bit, yes. And it may amuse you as something that happened after our reception, after our marriage, that two different sets of people our age and a little bit older have suddenly decided they are going to get married. One was a friend who hadn’t seen her new husband for at least twenty-five years and she called him up and said, “Would you mind driving me somewhere?” and he said, “Why, I’d be delighted to do so.” And he drove her somewhere and took her back and then they decided they’d get married. Just like that. They hadn’t seen each other for twenty-five years, but they went to the reception, and they got the idea.3
ASHTON: Hard to believe, isn’t it? And think back to being in the Class of ‘33 again. Would you have thought, when you were in the Class of ‘33, that the seventies could be one of the happiest decades in your life. Do you feel that way now?
FRYE: I feel that way now, yes, but then the Class of ‘33 is practically last Tuesday.
ASHTON: Yes. Time is flying, and it’s certainly flown here for us. Thank you so much for coming in. We’ve wanted to hear this story and I know it’s one you don’t tell often but we’re delighted to have you—
ELIZABETH FRYE: It’s been delightful to be here. Just great to meet all you nice young people.
ASHTON: Thank you very much for coming.