Laird Hamilton (TW/FB: @LAIRDLIFE, LAIRDHAMILTON.COM) is widely considered the greatest big wave surfer of all time. He is credited with the creation of tow-in surfing (using a Jet Ski to pull surfers into enormous waves), as well as the rebirth of stand-up paddle boarding. Hamilton has starred in multiple surfing films and was the centerpiece of Riding Giants, a documentary about big wave surfing.
Gabrielle Reece (TW/IG: @GABBYREECE, GABRIELLEREECE.COM) has been named one of the “20 Most Influential Women in Sports” by Women’s Sports & Fitness and is best known for her success in volleyball. Reece led the Women’s Beach Volleyball League in kills for four consecutive seasons. She parlayed that into a successful modeling career and then starred as a trainer on The Biggest Loser. Her crossover success led to her becoming the first female athlete to ever design a shoe for Nike. Rolling Stone has placed her on their “Wonder Women” list.
Brian MacKenzie (TW/IG: @IAMUNSCARED) is the founder of CrossFit Endurance and the author of the New York Times best-selling book Unbreakable Runner. Brian has created controversy by suggesting a counterintuitively minimalist approach to distance running. He challenges not only high-mileage runs, but also high-carb diets, and he utilizes intense strength training to conquer everything from 5K runs to ultra-marathons. He was prominently featured in The 4-Hour Body, where he described how to prepare for a marathon in 8 to 12 weeks. Brian has been featured in Runner’s World, Men’s Journal, ESPN, Outside, and The Economist.
Spirit animals: Laird = Killer whale; Gabby = Hawk; Brian = Raven
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Laird was one of my surfing teachers in my TV series, The Tim Ferriss Experiment, which was shot by ZPZ, the production company behind Anthony Bourdain’s No Reservations, Parts Unknown, etc.
My interview with Laird, Gabby, and Brian took place at Laird and Gabby’s kitchen table in Malibu, immediately after a workout. I felt as high as a kite. Brian had brought me to experience how Laird trains in his customized pool, which is 13 feet deep at the deep end and has stairs built into the floor. It also features underwater speakers for music and a slack line about 2 feet above the surface. I’d been invited by Brian before but always demurred out of fear of drowning. That morning, I bit the bullet and nervously joined 6 to 10 other guys to repeat the following cycle for roughly 90 minutes: underwater training with dumbbells, ice bath for at least 3 minutes, then 220°F sauna for 15 minutes. The entire gang does this workout twice a week, alternating with twice-weekly dry land weight-training sessions. They cheer each other on, and it’s wonderful. Assholes don’t last long.
Top professional athletes occasionally visit Laird to test-drive his famed pool workout. If a big musclehead comes in with an attitude, he’ll suggest they go “warm up” with Gabby. This is code. Gabby proceeds to casually annihilate them, leaving them bug-eyed, full of terror, and exhausted. Once they’ve been force-fed enough humble pie, Laird will ask “Okay, are you ready to start the workout?” As Brian has put it: “The water goes, ‘Oh, mighty and aggressive? Perfect. I’ll just drown you.’”
Pre-workout: Laird made everyone coffee, which he mixed with his own mocha-flavored “superfood creamer” (lairdsuperfood.com). It lights you up like a Christmas tree.
Post-workout: Fresh-squeezed turmeric root, chaga mushroom, liquid pepper extract, raw honey, apple cider vinegar, and water (dilute to taste). Laird sometimes combines the turmeric with KeVita kombucha to reduce any residual bitterness.
Cressi Big Eyes 2-lens diving mask. Goggles will come off.
Laird routinely releases his psoas—deep muscles that connect the lower back and the hip—by getting on the ground and lying on top of either a kettlebell handle or the edge of a 25-pound Olympic weight-lifting plate.
Laird has what Gabby calls the “man book club.” The regulars who come to his house to train—which includes super celebs, world-record-setting free divers, and hugely successful CEOs—can suggest a nonfiction book of the month and everyone will read it for discussion. Rick Rubin is a frequent contributor. Here are two that made the cut just prior to our interview:
Natural Born Heroes by Christopher McDougall
Deep Survival by Laurence Gonzales, which Laird calls “an incredible book about fear and dealing with fear.”
GABBY: “I always say that I’ll go first…. That means if I’m checking out at the store, I’ll say hello first. If I’m coming across somebody and make eye contact, I’ll smile first. [I wish] people would experiment with that in their life a little bit: Be first, because—not all times, but most times—it comes in your favor. The response is pretty amazing…. I was at the park the other day with the kids. Oh, my God. Hurricane Harbor [water park]. It’s like hell. There were these two women a little bit older than me. We couldn’t be more different, right? And I walked by them, and I just looked at them and smiled. The smile came to their face so instantly. They’re ready, but you have to go first, because now we’re being trained in this world [to opt out]—nobody’s going first anymore.”
TF: People are nicer than they look, but you have to go first. This made me think of a line from fictional character Raylan Givens in the TV series Justified: “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole.” I will often write “GO FIRST” in my morning journal as a daily prompt.
Side note: Derek Sivers (here) listened to this episode and Gabby’s “go first” principle was one of his favorite takeaways.
“We were the first ones to get the French non-restartable kites … where you release the guy and he just flies until he craps and then it’s over. Sometimes you’d be like 2 miles out to sea with a giant quilt. Have you ever tried to swim with a quilt? It’s very hard. Like a giant quilt … and a lunch tray. Literally, the board looks like a lunch tray [and] you’re 2 miles out, and you’re looking at the shore and you’re like: ‘This is not a good day for me.’”
I ask this at the end of all of my interviews, so guests can mention social media, websites, etc. Laird answered without hesitation: “The Pacific Ocean.”
BRIAN, discussing Don Wildman and his incredible physical prowess at the age of 82: “Well, Don Wildman did 80 days of snowboarding last year. I just went heli snowboarding with him 1 or 2 months ago in Alaska. I mean, heli boarding is a rigorous activity, a week straight of 15, 16 runs a day. The third, fourth day, you’re wobbling, [but] not a word out of the gunslinger…. I can take pretty much almost anybody on a bicycle unless you’re like a professional bicyclist, and he will hammer you.”
GABBY: “The other thing Don does that’s very genius … is he solicits people to be in his group because no man can really do it alone. So he always has these guys around him, most of them quite a bit younger. So the energy goes into the pot, and everybody rolls.” [TF: Rick Rubin also talks about Don here.]
This line from Laird underscored everything I saw around him. He has a tightly bonded tribe around him, and scheduled group exercise appears to be the glue that keeps the group together. If you spend a lot of time thinking of the “how” and “what” of exercise (exercises, programming, etc.), as I do, you might consider asking yourself, “What if I had to choose all of my exercise based on ‘Who?’ first? What would I do if exercise were only allowed with other people?” This is how I ended up diving into AcroYoga (here).
Laird and Gabby, married since 1997, have very close and affectionate relationships with their three kids. I’ve observed them over and over again. There is a lot of physical touch, and the pervasive feeling is one of warmth. It’s lovely to be around. The following parenting tidbits are taken from different points in the conversation.
LAIRD: “Loving your children can override a lot of wrongs. [Even if you get some of the specifics wrong or make missteps.]”
GABBY: “We’re inclusive, and we treat them like adults. We’ve always spoken to them like adults….
“As a parent, you have to learn to say sorry because you blew it…. Sometimes you can go, ‘Hey, you know what? I am extra tired today and my fuse is short. I am being unfair to you, and I’m sorry.’ You have to learn that you’re imperfect and open that door…. I always [ask] my girls, ‘Do you feel loved enough?’ … and they say, ‘Oh, come on, Mom.’ But I think you should ask….
“I tell my kids to learn how to say, ‘I’m sorry, that doesn’t work for me.’ I’ve learned a lot from being around men. I respect a lot of traits. You can deliver a message without emotion. Usually, women, in order to finally stand up for themselves, they have to kind of be ramped up, and then it just comes out ballistic, instead of, ‘No, that doesn’t work for me.’ And [I also teach them] not to then second guess [themselves] after they’ve laid that line down. I think that that’s really important. And if you have gifts and talents, whatever they are, don’t feel guilty and bad or weird about it….
“I always tell kids, ‘If you’re on the team, you’re lucky, and if you’re the best one, you’re the luckiest.’”
“As a woman, we’re taught as young girls, ‘Hey, be nice. Nice girls act like this,’ so it takes a long time to get to a place of ‘I’m going to do things, say things, and believe in things that people aren’t going to like, and I’m going to be okay with that.’ Men do that much more easily, and it takes women a very long time. The only [female] athletes I’ve seen that do it very easily are generally the youngest girl [in a family] with all older brothers.”
(See Caroline Paul, here.)
LAIRD: “[Of 10,000 successful couples studied], there’s only one thing that everybody had in common, no matter what the dynamic. What is it? The man respected the woman. The number one thing.”
GABBY: “But can I say one thing? I know all those dynamics differ—the woman’s the breadwinner, the man’s the breadwinner, she’s dominant, he’s dominant, whatever—but ultimately, more times than not, if the woman can refrain from trying to change or mother her partner, she has a greater opportunity of putting herself in a position where the guy will respect her. A man needs support. I mean, I love you guys and you’re all strong, but you’re very fragile, and you need to be supported and [for us to] help you fully realize your voice, whatever that is.
“Laird said to me the first couple of years we were together—unfortunately, his mom passed away the second year we were together—‘I had a mom, and she died.’ He made it very clear … that’s off the table. Women by nature, we can’t help it, we’re nurturers, right? So sometimes that seeps over into, ‘Hey, honey, that joke was kind of inappropriate at the dinner table, and you’re talking kind of loud,’ and all that. And because the man’s trying to be loving, they pacify us and change all the ways we want them to, and then we don’t want them. So it’s a great thing to just say, ‘Hey, I’m going to pick a partner when I feel like our value systems are similar, and we may get there very differently, but … how we wind up on some of the big items is the same.’”
GABBY: “For a man to say, ‘I’m going to really try to be with one woman,’ they’re giving you … most of what they’ve got. They’re giving you like 80%. For a woman, maybe she’s giving you 35% [to be monogamous]…. Or let’s say I was very shy and I came out and was having a very nice conversation with you. Maybe I’m giving you 200% because of my nature. So I think it’s also starting to understand who they are, that they’re giving how they can give, and receiving it that way….”
LAIRD: “All you flexible people should go bang some iron, and all you big weight lifters should go do some yoga…. We always gravitate toward our strengths because we want to be in our glory.”
BRIAN: “More humility. That’s why I thought it was so important that you come up here. It wasn’t, ‘Oh, I need to dose Tim with humility.’ No, it was, ‘Hey, come see what it’s like to apply something that you can do for the rest of your life.’”
TF: By “more humility,” I took Brian to mean considering scary options with an open beginner’s mind. I’m so thrilled I took the risk of embarrassment to train with Laird and the gang. First, it showed me an intense but sustainable method of training, which includes ingredients I often neglect (social cohesion, training outdoors, etc.). Second, it made me believe I am capable of much more than I thought.
GABBY: “Not to take anything personally, but also don’t hold yourself back. I think this is a trait of a female more than of a male. We have a tendency sometimes to sit on our talents and potential because we don’t want to offend anyone or be singled out…. I heard a great story. I had a coach once, who was an assistant coach to the men’s USA volleyball team. One game [they needed one point], and the coach looked straight at Karch Kiraly and said, ‘I need you to put this ball away and for you to win this game,’ and it was like, boom—‘Okay.’ And then Karch did it.
“[Then the same coach] was coaching women at a very high level, and he did the same thing to the athlete who was ‘the one.’ It didn’t work because … [it’s] a singling-out that we [women] have a hard time with, instead of understanding that you can be singled out … for the greater good.”
LAIRD: “Stop drinking now. Stop drinking right now and patent all your ideas … and exercise compassion every day.”