Froggy

Soul Mafia hitman

Interviewed by Bill in Harlesden, September 7, 2004

A natural gift for mixing and an acute understanding of electronics helped Froggy (real name Steve Hewlett) rise from the made-men of the Soul Mafia to become one of the most skilful DJs of his era. The jazz-funk scene in London and the south-east revolved around Mafia capos Chris Hill and Robbie Vincent and a network of suburban clubs like Ilford’s Lacy Lady and The Goldmine in Canvey Island. From this extrovert scene came the tradition of dancefloor crews in matching outfits and bonk-fest soul weekenders in seaside holiday camps. What marked Froggy out from the other jocks was an appreciation of American mixing techniques, the first pair of Technics 1200s in the country, and one of the UK’s mightiest sound systems, beefy enough to impress even the most unrepentant dub thug. As a result he had the largest black following of any of the Soul Mafia DJs.

Froggy’s DJing apprenticeship came as roadshow DJ for Radio 1 DJ Dave Lee Travis (aka ‘The Hairy Cornflake’). A heavy gigging schedule brought hard-won dancefloor experience, while an apprenticeship at Plessey in Dagenham gave him his electronic dexterity. He discovered mixing via a trip to New York led by Chris Hill, which he swiftly adopted at his Southgate Royalty residency. Froggy later moved into studio mixing and continued to DJ right up until his sudden death in March 2008.

It’s a beautiful early autumn day in Harlesden, north-west London, when we meet at the Lodge on Harrow Road, and we repair to the storeroom-cum-office upstairs with the smudgey sub-bass of disco underfoot to do the interview.

Where were you born and where did you grow up?

I’m a proper Cockney. Born in Whitechapel, by the Bow bells. Born in The Wright Hospital, November 8th. Age I don’t talk about. I’m a veteran.

Did you grow up in Whitechapel?

I grew up in Whitechapel, then moved to Rainham between seven and 12, then moved to Ilford. Dad worked at Plessey’s at the time, which was a big concern. I couldn’t stand school anymore and my dad had influence there and it was hard to get an apprenticeship, and I wanted to do an electronics apprenticeship and in those days you could leave when you were 15, so I left school just after my 15th birthday. Did that till I was 21. Went and got my City & Guilds. Covered all aspects of engineering. My thoughts were always towards the radio, studio equipment and sound systems. Started developing this skill for sound systems and radiograms.

When did you start collecting records?

When I was five. In those days, all you had was wind up record players – clockwork, with a handle on the side. In those days, it was 78s and you had to change the needles after three or four plays. So my pocket money was a box of needles every week, and a record. So they’d lock me in my room and I’d play my records.

What sort of records?

I had a great interest in general melody stuff, things like Guy Mitchell’s ‘Singin’ The Blues’, ‘Rock Around The Clock’, I was a big Lonnie Donegan fan. When I started my apprenticeship, you didn’t get a lot of money, about a fiver a week. I quickly became the Apprenticeship Association man, which gave me the clout to put a few do’s on. Plessey’s, at that time, had a social hall. With all my knowledge, I scrounged speakers, an amplifier, and I had a couple of old Garrard decks and started doing little do’s for apprentices.

Where you using two decks, then?

There was nothing like mixing in those days. All you had was a big hi-fi amp, a Leek 70 or Quad amplifier, which was the crème de la crème, and both of those had two decks plugs, so you could switch from one to the other. I had a couple of Garrard turntables and an amp and a couple of speakers. And I already had quite a collection and those records were quite appropriate for these do’s.

Towards the end of my apprenticeship, I’d saved quite a bit of money, and I went and got two sheets of eight by five and at that time the only 12-inch speaker you could get, associated with Plessey, was a Wharfedale, so I phoned the company up to get the specs and built two cabinets with tweeters in, in my house. These were my first two disco speakers.

Continued with my apprenticeship. I’d heard there was a little place starting up at the Bird’s Nest in Chapel Heath. They were Watney’s pubs with a little room in each pub and they were interviewing for DJs. So I went along and got it straight away. I did my own night, started with nothing and built it up till it was packed. And it was on a Monday night. So soon as I’d finished my apprenticeship, the day I finished, I jacked it in the next day. I wanted to go professional. To my horror it wasn’t as easy as I thought. I bought a little Thames van for £100, put some gear in it. Proudly walked in the next week and told them I was a professional disc jockey. They laughed me all the way out of the door, because you really could not get insured for any kind of entertainment then whether you were a golfer or DJ. I had to go round posing as an electrician. Anyway, got the Bird’s Nest going, packed out every Monday night, different promoters started coming in, liked what I did, liked what I played. I was a good entertainer, and good on the mic. So other owners from other places got my number and started booking me. Six months after I’d gone professional I’d managed to sustain a wage from doing it.

“  Richard Long was fascinated by my interest in sound systems. I was one of the few people that he let up to see what was in the Paradise Garage. ”

Which other places were you doing?

Bird’s Nest was my main one. The Robin Hood in Dagenham on Thursdays. Then one day a guy came to see me at the Bird’s Nest, within the first year, and he said I’ve got a guy who deals with all the bands, manages them, and he was managing Joe Brown who, at the time, was doing quite well. He used to have a venue, and he’d had it for 18 years then. By this time I had a little mobile kit. Couple of speakers, Numan Audio, couple of decks. Anyway, I rang this guy up, George Cooper, who used to put bands in as a package. Two weeks later, I found myself on my way to Scunthorpe, which is probably the hardest ride imaginable. Set off at eight in the morning to get there at five at night to get there in time for the bands. At that time the bands that were big were The Sweet, T Rex, Slade and I had some great fun working with those bands. Only problem was the loneliness going there and back ’cos I only had a Thames van and it was a bloody long drive. There were no motorways then and I used to come home and it did knock the balls out of me.

I did that for four years. First year it was all bands. I realised I didn’t have enough equipment to do such a big room, and they were talking to me one day, the manager and George, and they said, ‘Do you know much about any of the radio jocks?’ So I said I was a big fan of Emperor Rosko. So they said get him down here. First one they booked was Johnny Walker, then came Rosko, who was my hero and he had this big lorry load of equipment, it was the bollocks and he actually came and sat and spoke to me. He actually let me plug my deck into his system and – boom – I was gone then.

Soon as I got back I started buying every speaker, borrowed money wherever I could, filled the van up with speakers, built up these amplifiers and, next, they booked Dave Lee Travis. The good thing about this night was he commented on how sharp I was. When he looked I always had that awareness so I had a record already cued up, so he’d tell a few gags and entertain. To my amazement at the end of the night he said, ‘Could I have a word with you?’ We went back to the dressing room. He said, ‘Been wanting to do it for a long time but just haven’t found the right person. I really enjoyed working with you tonight. There’s something about your timing and the music you played. Are you interested in doing some gigs with me?’

I said I’d love to.

He said, ‘I want to get together a roadshow.’ Within three weeks, I went round to his place, had a talk. He said he wanted to tour and it can be quite hectic. He wanted two dancers, me before and after.

So we got two good dancers, I brushed up the sound equipment and off we went and did our first couple of shows. We didn’t have anywhere open after two in those days so we’d do ten till one thirty. So we had the DLT Roadshow with my name in subtitles.

It was so successful we toured the country four or five times. We toured for five years. Dave bought a Winnebago. We had a couple of road crew. Dave was at the peak of his career then, so it opened a lot of doors for me, as you can imagine, and they’d often book me back on my own to do a set on a club night, and that’s how I built up my name all over the country.

The Froggy name came from the Bird’s Nest because we all had to have nicknames. There was a Scottish DJ called Jock The Jock, and because I was quite wiry it became Frog and then Froggy. I then got asked to do one of the biggest clubs in the country – I’d played there twice as the DLT Roadshow – which was the Southgate Royalty. Just at that time Jeff Young was playing and the manager said, ‘Would you come down and do one with your sound system.’ By that time I’d built it up into quite a nice system. So I went back and did it on my own, played a lot less commercial stuff, more what Jeff was playing. They said it was great and they offered me a residency. And by that time I’d been touring all the time and I was tired out. I wanted to have a base, so I took it on. Bit of a bumpy ride for six months, because I had to find someone to cover for me with Dave, but eventually I left because I really wanted to stick with the Royalty.

What year did you start doing it?

Years are a bit difficult to quote you. Within the first year I was there, it really built up. I was playing a lot more imports. But I was breaking imports while I was on the road, too. Because I worked at the Royalty, they’d have a bag of tunes for me, literally everything that came in. I’d pick ‘em up and pay for them sale or return. In that first year, they did the New Music Seminar in New York. Well, New York was about the biggest place to go, so just inside that year I went over there with a few DJs

That would be 1979?

Yeah. I went over with the Mafia team. Chris Hill, Chris Brown, Sean French, Robbie Vincent, me. I’ve never experienced anything like it in all my life. It changed my life completely. I’d heard all about it, and I’d heard all about mixing techniques. I was always good at mixing, but not in the way they did it. I always had a good idea of beats and how you could weave music in and out.

The first day meeting everyone I found great. Then we got invited to the Paradise Garage. I never knew nothin’ about it. But Chris Hill said to me, ‘When you see it, you’ll understand what I’ve been going on about,’ because he’d been going on about it for ages. So we left at midnight, we’d all had loads of champagne and everything else. And I’d never seen anything like it. Sound system was the most incredible I’d ever heard. The room was the most electrifyin’ I’d ever been in. The DJ was just… incredible. The tunes he played were quite fantastic. The two stations then were WBLS and WKTU and BLS was linked with Paradise Garage and was much more streety and WKTU was linked to Studio 54. I experienced this whole night, from 12 till seven listening to this jock and the lighting and the sound was just so incredible, I couldn’t believe it.

The following evening we went to Studio 54 and experienced the big queue outside and being picked – we had special passes – and also the Richard Long sound system which was the same as the Garage one. The music was much lighter, but just as entertaining and brilliant. Came back and decided, with all the information I’d got, I spoke to Richard Long quite a lot, who was fascinated by my interest in sound systems, made lots of drawings and notes and came back and got myself in a load of fucking debt. I went out and borrowed every penny I could, bought a lorry and built a big system up. Went to see a mate of mine in Southend and he built these big bins for me and I took two guys on full time. We fitted it into the Royalty every week and people used to come for miles. By this time, I’d had my mixer modified and redesigned.

In terms of the sound, what were you using exactly?

When I was over there, I was one of the few people that Richard Long let up to see what was in the Paradise Garage. He used Thorens decks at the time and they were mounted up from a gimbal in the ceiling. When I had a look at one, they were just too slow for the work I was used to. I needed a quicker start. All the DJs who were doing blend mixing were using the Technics 1200 Mk1 which to my horror, when I brought two back from New York and I just couldn’t work with them. I practised on them for two months, then I went to play up north at the Warehouse.

In Leeds?

Yeah, he had guys like Greg Wilson playing up there. When I went up there to play, I fluffed it, couldn’t use them; they were too slow, so I flogged them. Anyway, I went over to New York and I’d heard about a new version of the 1200 that they had out, the Mk2, when I went over and played on them, I did a little guest spot, the deck was quick, it had a high-torque motor in it. That changed the whole industry. I bought two back with me.

Was the Mk 1 the one with the little LED screen on it?

No that was the 1500 Mk2. I had the first 1200s in the country. But once I’d got into them: off I went. And the mixing, I studied Larry Levan, Tee Scott, Shep Pettibone, went to KISS FM and watched them. And then adopted it at the Royalty on the Saturday night. Within eight weeks, Chris Hill came up to me and said I was definitely on par with the Americans. So it went on from there.

Were you aware of guys like Greg James at the Embassy?

Yeah, I’ve got a lot of respect for him. They used these lazy decks which weren’t right for what I was doing, but I used to go and watch Greg, he was great. But when the 1200s came out it opened a lot of doors. Also, I’d always had a reel-to-reel, so I started editing. Dave Atkin, from Radio 1, Dave Lee Travis’s producer, good friend of mine, taught me. I used to and watch him produce shows, watched him edit singles down for radio. He said, when you get it right, you can have a little mix each week on Peter Powell’s show. What I was doing was making the mixes up, but I couldn’t edit properly. He taught me to edit properly and I practised and practised. So I’d take him a mix in, have a chat about what was in Blues & Soul, Record Mirror, so then I started doing a lot of mixes for radio, 7-inch mixes. Capital heard me and gave me a late night show.

What kind of stuff were you playing when you did Peter Powell?

So you’d read James Hamilton’s column in Record Mirror and then you’d feature the tracks. We’d ring him up and give him information as to what the big tracks were. RM was a bible for the industry and Blues & Soul also had a two page segment that Bob Kilbourn wrote.

Within a short space of time, the Mafia, what we played was so upfront they would look up to us to see what to buy. At the Royalty, they’d book Greg Edwards every month, Robbie Vincent, and gradually a team formed to do Caister. I was already doing Caister before the soul ones started. I was doing the 18-30s, great laugh, general music, I did about eight of those. Shagged myself into a coma. Then Robbie Vincent did one of the 18-30s with me and took it back to Showstoppers at the Royalty and said, ‘Look why don’t we do a soul one?’

In that two and a half years at the Royalty, it opened a lot of doors, I was doing radio, it started to get on top a wee bit. The sound system became expensive to keep running and I took a break at one stage. I put the sound in at Caister and because I’d designed it I was always getting phone calls about it, which just made me too tired. I wasn’t concentrating on my work. Then I left it alone for a year and then Brian Rix took it over.

What, the sound system?

No Caister. I came back after a year, had a word with Brian and said, ‘Ask the boys if it was okay,’ and I came back. I asked him about the sound system, the guy doing it was a friend of mine, and what he put in, I thought I couldn’t compete so I left him to it, but at the next Caister, they made me stay in the dressing room until they announced it and I got a bit of a standing ovation for that year I’d taken off.

Do you remember what year that was?

They’re a bit of a blur. Anyway, it was a good year and a half I missed. I must admit that, although Brian Rix can be a difficult person to deal with, he runs that event very well and keeps it going, so I do that twice a year.

“  I had the first 1200s in the country. I bought two back with me. The deck was quick, it had a high-torque motor in it. That changed the whole industry. ”

Didn’t you hire out your system to some of the rare groove guys during the late ’80s? I’m sure Norman Jay said he was blown away by Derek B when he saw him in Canning Town and he was using your system.

The problem was there became a lot of jealousy. There are only certain boys that can run a sound system. Where I got a lot of my knowledge from were people like Jah Tubby, Jah Whoosh and those guys. They were telling me about increased costs. You can’t just have idiots lugging the gear around, you gotta have a few technicians with you, too. So I started to hire it out and I found I was using it so much to hire it out that I wasn’t using it myself. So the last couple of years it has been in storage, so I don’t know what to do with it.

But Derek B was using it wasn’t it?

Derek B was a protégé of mine. He was like a black version of me. The problem was he got too greedy too quick. I was working with Simon Harris, at the time, doing production work. And Derek B started putting gigs on everywhere saying it was his sound system, so we had a massive row, punch up and everything. Derek B then got a deal with a record company, Simon Harris got a deal and ‘Bad Young Brother’ was Derek B, so we went our own ways. I did Derek B’s first big edit for his album, which he rejected, he then got Simon Harris to do it and he rejected that and the company blew him out. So he got his own in the end.

What sort of records were you playing at the Royalty?

The whole idea of the Paradise Garage was, any good record could be a dance track, which was great. ‘Love Injection’ [by Trussell], ‘We Got The Funk’ [by Positive Force], ‘Another One Bites The Dust’ [by Queen], so I started doing all these little inserts. Pete Tong was so impressed, he was like that’s a fucking brilliant idea and that started to influence him a lot. D Train’s ‘You’re The One For Me’, ‘Can You Handle It’ [by Sharon Redd], all the Prelude stuff. One of the biggest labels at that time was West End. They really did have loads of leftfield tracks, there’s one that’s still getting used now, Loose Joints’ ‘Is It All Over My Face’. It took me a year to break that track, no one could get into that.

Then on the jazz-funk side you had all the British bands coming up. You had Level 42, I Level… So in your set you’d include Lonnie Liston Smith’s ‘Expansions’, ‘Always There’ Willie Bobo, then you’d have the jazz stuff to go in there. So jazz-funk included Willie Bobo, you never heard jazz-funk stuff at the Garage, it was all club music. But in this country, you mixed them together. So ‘Expansions’ you’d play Sharon Redd after it.

Larry Levan and Froggy

What was the crowd composition at the Royalty?

The biggest issue you had was the mixed race thing. To my horror in the first few years I got knocked a lot outside of that for playing black music. The biggest problem was no club owners wanted a heavy – over 50 percent black – so keeping a happy medium was very hard. Very very difficult to keep it predominantly white, as such, because you were playing black music. I did find myself not playing the more leftfield stuff to keep that down a bit. It was heavy.

Did you play any of the electro stuff?

No. I grew to like it quite a lot. At that time, Morgan Khan was doing the jazz-funk and he was on his second album and he wanted a mixed one and there wasn’t many jocks around that could mix on reel-to-reel. So I did an electro album for him, me and Simon Harris. So when I did Capital, one of the jocks who did electro before me left, so I would do the electro hour before doing my stuff. Didn’t touch the hip hop stuff. ‘Planet Rock’ and that label it was on…?

Tommy Boy.

Yeah, that was a big concern, did a lot of work for them.

Were you playing any of that stuff in clubs?

No, I never played it out. But on the radio I did editing work and mixing for them. I used to do it incognito, never used to put my name on it much. I didn’t want to be associated with it too much. I grew to like it, because I like music in general, but hip hop is not for me, Don’t like it at all. Far too heavy. Unfortunately, it’s become very big.

“  The jocks in New York, although technically brilliant, never said a word, though. Combine the two and it gave me something special. ”

Were there any people who influenced you when you were younger?

Well when I was growing into my teens there was only one radio station. The only one you could get was Radio Luxembourg. Tony Prince was a big name on there, so I used to tune into Tony Prince and Paul Burnett. They were great, a big influence radio-wise. They broke away and did Radio Caroline, which was the forerunner to Radio 1, as you know. As far as live work it was Emperor Rosko, he was always playing live, Johnny Walker for contemporary stuff and clubwise, I didn’t really see any DJ in this country who did anything that I couldn’t do better myself. It wasn’t until I went to America that I saw something completely different. The jocks in New York, although technically brilliant, never said a word, though. Combine the two and it gave me something special. Technically I studied the best jocks in America: Levan, Pettibone and Tee Scott. Those were the ones that did something for me. So then I could mix the tunes and rap over the top which became a very good entertainment package.

What was it about Rosko you liked?

I was always a Wolfman Jack fan. He had such a unique style. He used to play to a lot of the campus students. Emperor Rosko was like a British version of him. Basically we became quite close friends, I watched him work live and I was his protégé, no doubt. He had to move back to America because his dad, the famous film director Michael Pasternak died. When he left, my sound system that I built was virtually identical to the one he had, so when he came back to the UK he’d play on my system.

I got myself into a lot of debt when he left actually, I borrowed about six grand. I went to Matt Fry, he built all Emperor Rosko’s gear and he built mine. I started to admire certain jocks around me, for instance I couldn’t help but be fascinated by Chris Hill’s entertainment value. He wasn’t particularly brilliant technically, but he had this fantastic ear for picking tracks off of albums. The most influential DJ I’ve ever met. Chris Brown was good, Jeff Young, all the Mafia team.

Did you go to the Lacy Lady and the Goldmine?

I didn’t hang out there, because I was very busy. I didn’t like the Goldmine much. I didn’t like Canvey Island much, but it did have a lot of weight. I preferred the Kings near my hometown. I’d go there as much as I could.

What was the difference in crowd composition between the Goldmine and the Royalty?

No difference at all. Stan eventually sold the Goldmine and they went to another place. They went to some place in the country, but that didn’t work that well so they came back to the Seven Kings. So the Lacy Lady carried the name wherever it was held.

“  I remember breaking ‘Do You Think I’m Sexy’. No-one had ever heard it before and I dropped it at a Young Farmers’ do in the west country and everyone went crazy. ”

Why was the Kings good?

It was a lovely room, great acoustics, it had a great atmosphere, the way it was laid out.

Were you doing gigs in the north playing more underground music?

Yeah, well when I was travelling around with Dave Lee Travis, I was still well into my imports. I remember breaking ‘Do You Think I’m Sexy’. No-one had ever heard it before and I dropped it at a Young Farmers’ do in the west country and everyone went crazy. Out of the maybe 15 singles and one or two albums, I’d select five that would work everywhere. Play them in my set and then play them later in Dave’s set because he grew to like them, stuff like ‘Love Injection’, he featured them on his show when they came out on British labels, and I was able to spread the word around all round the country.

One year, Disco International, to my surprise, rang me up and said I’d won DJ of the Year award. James Hamilton was always interested in what I was playing and what was breaking because I played all over the country. Crown Heights Affair ‘Sexy Lady’, I played that everywhere. Because you had capacity crowds everywhere you could really work the track. D Train and ‘Can You Handle It’, instantaneously, they worked. But I didn’t overdo it, I’d pick five at a time and work them. All the other Radio 1 jocks who went out and did their roadshows didn’t have a fuckin’ clue, but Rosko was on the ball and we were. We were the only ones with a two-and-a-half-hour self-contained show. The two of us were the only ones to book.

© DJhistory.com

FROGGY 50

BRASS CONSTRUCTION – Talkin’

LA PRENTUGA – Cameleon

THE BROTHERS JOHNSON – Stomp

PLAYERS ASSOCIATION – The Get Down Mellow Mellow Sound

TRUSSEL – Love Injection

PAULINHO DA COSTA – Déjà Vu

TYZIK – Sweet Nothings

ASHFORD & SIMPSON – It Seems To Hang On

ROBIN BECK – Sweet Talk

JACKIE MOORE – This Time Baby

KINSMAN DAZZ BAND – Love Design

AURRA – When I Come Home (Levan Remix)

SLAVE – Party Lights

KLEEER – Get Tough

MFSB – Mysteries Of The World

MELBA MOORE – Standing Right Here

STARGARD – Wear It Out (Inst)

CAROL WILLIAMS – Can’t Get Away

MARK SOSKIN – Walk Tall

CANDIDO – Dancin’ & Prancin’

ALICIA MYERS – I Want To Thank You

BABY O – In The Forest

INNER LIFE – Moment Of My Life

CHANGE – You Are My Melody

CHANTAL CURTIS – Get Another Love

CROWN HEIGHTS AFFAIR – Use Your Body And Soul

FRANK HOOKER & POSITVE PEOPLE – This Feelin’

GAYLE ADAMS – Your Love Is A Lifesaver

GQ – Make My Dream A Reality

GREY & HANKS – Dancin’

HEAVEN & EARTH – I Really Love You

HI TENSION – There’s A Reason

L.A.X. – All My Love

LINDA CLIFFORD – Runaway Love

LOGG – You’ve Got That Something

MAN PARRISH – Hip Hop Be Bop (Don’t Stop)

NARADA MICHAEL WALDEN – I Shoulda Loved Ya

ONE WAY – Music

PATRICE RUSHEN – Haven’t You Heard

PEECH BOYS – Don’t Make Me Wait (Dub Mix)

REVELATION – Feel It

SHARON REDD – Never Give You Up

T CONNECTION – At Midnight

THE UNIVERSAL ROBOT BAND – Barely Breaking Even

UNIQUE – What I Got Is What You Need

ROY AYERS – Don’t Stop The Feeling

BILL SUMMERS – Straight To The Bank

STARSHINE – All I Need Is You

LENNY WHITE – Didn’t Know About Love Till I Found You

B.T. EXPRESS – Give Up The Funk

Compiled by Steve ‘Frostie’ Frost

RECOMMENDED LISTENING

VARIOUS – Dance Mix: Dance hits Vol. 1 (DJ mix)

JAMES BROWN – Froggy Mix