INTERVIEW WITH TREVOR NOAH
THE DAILY SHOW WITH TREVOR NOAH
JANUARY 17, 2018
TREVOR NOAH: My guest tonight is a world-renowned chef, best-selling author and publisher, and host of the Emmy-winning CNN original series Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown. Please welcome, Anthony Bourdain!
[Applause]
Welcome to the show.
ANTHONY BOURDAIN: Thank you. Good to be here.
NOAH: I’ve been a fan of yours for so long, watching you travel around the world, and it was so amazing this week I guess it was, uh, perfect timing—CNN aired a bunch of your shows, Anthony Bourdain, specifically of you in Africa around the same time that the president was commenting on how these are “shithole countries.”
BOURDAIN: Yeah, what a coincidence! [Laughing]
NOAH: Right. You tweeted about the president saying “shithole countries.” Why did it affect you so much, why did it offend you so much?
BOURDAIN: Because apparently I’ve wasted my life going to shitholes. I mean, I’ve spent 17 years travelling around to extraordinary places. I mean, the notion that people don’t work hard—clearly no one on his team has been to Nigeria, where people work like no one I’ve ever seen…It was just deeply, I mean, enraging, enraging to me because it’s a refutation of everything I’ve seen, experienced, all the people I’ve met, and everything I’ve done in the past 17 years.
NOAH: Would you say that that’s something that has shaped your experiences, and shaped your world-view—travelling to these places? Because, I mean, for many people, in their defense, they see images of Africa and they go “Oh, that place doesn’t look great,” but on your show you have gone to, as you say, parts unknown, some of the most beautiful locations and unlikely destinations. Does it change how you see the people and the places?
BOURDAIN: Yeah. I think Mark Twain said, that “travel is lethal to prejudice.” You know, the extent to which you can walk in another person’s shoes, to see how hard people work and struggle on a daily basis, even for very little…And the extent to which you see how much people do, how well things are going. I mean I love showing up in places thinking one thing, and having those expectations turned on their heads all the time. But then again, you know, I’m a fool. I think curiosity is a virtue [laughing] and that’s not something, uh…
[Applause]
NOAH: Let me ask you this. Just like, on a food-level, as a chef…What do you think America would be like if there were no food, if there were no foods, from any of these other countries?
BOURDAIN: Well, to start with, good ol’ American Southern food as we know it, you know, classic Americana, wouldn’t exist. I mean, if you spend any time in Ghana, you see exactly where, you know, food that we tend to associate on Food Network with, you know, old white ladies, well, we learn this is African food!
[Audience laughter]
So, look, the history of the world is on your plate. Every plate of food is an expression of, often, a long struggle, a long story, and I guess that’s one of the satisfactions, one of the joys of travelling and eating as you find out who’s cooking, and why, and where these things come from. I mean, I grew up in the early sixties. American food then, your options were extremely limited. You know, so the more we have people from somewhere else bringing their food chain, and ingredients, and traditions—life only gets better.
NOAH: When you look at that statement, the food telling you a story about people, not just the people who are preparing it, but the people who are eating it, which I think is a beautiful statement, if someone was to eat cheeseburgers every day, all the time, what do you think that would say about them and their culinary tastes, as a person?
BOURDAIN: 239 pounds, apparently.*
[Audience laughter and applause]
You know I think it’s worth noting, it is reported, that President Trump, in his year in Washington D.C, which is a very good restaurant town, has never been to any other restaurant than his steak house at the Trump Hotel—
NOAH: Where he eats well done steaks, with ketchup.
BOURDAIN: You’re hurting me.
NOAH: I know, I know. I’m doing this on purpose
BOURDAIN: That hurts. I am interested, though. Do you think he can use chopsticks?
NOAH: That sounds like an insult…but it’s a valid question.
BOURDAIN: I’d be curious to know.
NOAH: If that was, like, on the test to determine whether or not you could be president, I think America might be calling him President Pence right now. Let’s move on and talk about the journey life has taken you on so far. Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown has taken you on many journeys. You know, you’ve grown as a person. One of the more painful, and I would think interesting journeys you’ve taken on your life just happened very recently in regards to the #MeTooMovement—
BOURDAIN: Mmm-hmm.
NOAH:—happening not just in America, but in many parts of the world. Your girlfriend was one of the people who first came out and exposed a story regarding Harvey Weinstein.
BOURDAIN: Mmm-hmm.
NOAH: Your comments posted were really interesting because not only were you supportive, you felt disappointed in yourself because there were many women you now heard stories from who didn’t tell you the stories, and you regarded them as friends.
BOURDAIN: Yeah.
NOAH: Why were you disappointed in yourself?
BOURDAIN: Um…you know I came out of a brutal, oppressive business that was historically unfriendly to women. I knew a lot of women, it turned out, who had stories about their experiences about people I knew, who did not feel I was the sort of person they could confide in. And suddenly, because of my association with Asia, people were talking to me. And, in fact, I had started speaking about it. I have a sense of real rage. I mean, I’d like to say that I arrived, I was always enlightened in some way, or that I’m an activist, or I’m virtuous, but in fact, you know, I have to be honest with myself. I met one extraordinary woman with an extraordinary and painful story, who introduced me to a lot of other women with extraordinary stories, and suddenly it was personal. And that, that woke me to the extent I ever woke up, that certainly had an effect.
So, I think like a lot of men, I’m reexamining my life. I, you know, I wrote sort of the meathead Bible for uh, restaurant employees and chefs. And, you know, I look back like, I hope, a lot of men in that industry, and say, not so much what did I do or not do, but what did I see, and what did I let slide…what did I not notice? I think that’s something people are really going to have to take into account now.
NOAH: Yeah, it is something the movement is definitely demanding of men in all industries. And I think what was particularly painful was you expressed it so honestly, you know, when Mario Batali’s story came out, and then other chefs came out—these were people who you regarded as friends, and these are people who, you know, in a nuanced world people struggle to understand, may still be a friend. But-but how do you grapple with that? Like, how do you wrap your head around that? What do you aim to do going forward? Will you go, like, “As Anthony Bourdain, I have a platform, I have, you know, an imprint. I have access to this world, of chefs, of restaurants…” What do you aspire to now?
BOURDAIN: Well, it’s been a long time since I’ve been in the—it’s been about 20 years since I’ve been in the industry, and I have been removed from it. But, I mean, look, no matter how much I admire someone, or respected their work, you know, I’m pretty much Mean the Merciless on this issue right now. You know, I’m not in a forgiving state of mind. I mean, that shit ain’t okay.
[Audience applause and cheering]
NOAH: The business that you are in now involves not just travelling around the world, but helping people of diverse backgrounds have a voice writing cookbooks, telling their stories about their parts that are unknown. You, Anthony Bourdain, you could have just done it for yourself. Why was it so important for you to get these people involved, and to help them get their stories out there?
BOURDAIN: Um, you know, I’m one of those annoying people, if I read a book, or see a movie, or listen to a record I really, really like, If I could I’d come over to your house and shove it in your hands, and sit there and you know, listen to it with you to make sure you don’t miss anything, or re-read every line, you know?
NOAH: That is an annoying person. [Laughing] Yeah, I know those people.
BOURDAIN: I’m passionate to the point of being evangelical about things that I love, that give me pleasure, and make me excited. And, um, you know I didn’t really travel until I was forty-two years old, I spent my whole life in kitchens. I’d seen nothing of the world. So, this is all still relatively new to me. People have been very kind to me. I feel very, very, very fortunate. So as a publisher, as somebody who puts people from all over the world on television, you know, to a great extent it is a selfish act because I’m having fun, I enjoy it, it makes me feel good. But I’m also, um, coming to as many people’s houses as possible, and sitting down next to them, and watching the movie next to them and saying, you know, I want you to notice this. I want you to see how awesome these places are. I don’t feel like I’m an advocate, or a spokesperson for anything. I’m just, you know, I’m an enthusiastic son of a bitch. And I’m having a really good time, and the things that make me happy, uh, you know, especially if I feel it’s somebody who’s not reaching a wider audience, well I’d like to help.
NOAH: I love that, man. Anthony Bourdain, “enthusiastic son of a bitch.” Thank you so much for being on the show.
BOURDAIN: Thank you.
NOAH: Anthony Bourdain, everybody!
* Donald Trump’s physician had recently released the results of his examination of the President, claiming this was his weight, to derision from the press, which noted that Trump was obviously heavier than that.