THREE

 

‘I pursued Happiness as a selfish aim and found myself Enlightened’

RAMESH So, what is your name?

DANIEL Daniel.

RAMESH What part of the world are you from?

DANIEL Israel.

RAMESH Is this your first visit here?

DANIEL Yes, this is first time.

RAMESH First day, first time.

DANIEL Yes, first day, first time.

RAMESH And how do you know what I talk about? What brought you here? Do you know what I talk about?

DANIEL More or less.

RAMESH Have you read any of my books?

DANIEL Parts. Mainly I know you from friends. A good friend of ours told us to come here. And different people recommended we come here.

RAMESH So, what are you seeking?

DANIEL What am I seeking?

RAMESH How long have you been seeking? What are you seeking?

DANIEL I would say I am seeking happiness.

RAMESH Absolutely correct. You are seeking happiness. Now who is seeking happiness?

DANIEL Part of Daniel who is unhappy.

RAMESH Now, who is seeking happiness? Daniel is seeking happiness. Now, wait a minute. What I talk about is not Philosophy. There are plenty of books on Philosopy. What I am talking about is happiness in daily living…for someone who is reasonably comfortable in life. I am not talking about someone below the poverty line. For a simple reason. If I ask someone living below the poverty line, “What would you want as happiness?” He would tell me, “Are you crazy Ramesh? What I want is enough money for my basic needs – food, clothing and shelter for me and my family.” For him that is happiness.

So who is seeking happiness? Someone like Daniel who is reasonably comfortable in life – for which he should be grateful to God and who also knows, from personal experience, that the essence of daily living is total uncertainty.

Nobody can know what the next moment will bring. For example, you may do the nicest thing to help someone or whatever, and yet you may never know whether the nicest thing or the good thing you have done will bring you pain or pleasure. Nobody can know. So my focal point is, “What does someone like us, reasonably comfortable in life, who has accepted, from personal experience, that no one can know what the next moment will bring, pain or pleasure, what does someone like us want as happiness?” No one can know the total amount of pain or pleasure one is going to experience in one’s life! Isn’t that a fact?

DANIEL So why seek anything?

RAMESH Why seek anything? You are seeking something. Therefore, my focal question is, “What is someone like Daniel, reasonably comfortable in life, for which he is grateful to God, while there are millions of people living under the poverty line, who also knows from personal experience that the basis of living is uncertainty, what is Daniel seeking?” No one can know what the next moment can bring, pleasure or pain and no one can know the total amount of pleasure or pain one has to experience in life which, according to my concept, has already been pre-determined!

In such circumstances, what does Daniel want most as happiness? That is my focal question. You know that from personal experience – you don’t know what the next moment will bring, pleasure or pain. Whatever you do, you will never know the result of that. The essence of daily living is that every individual has the total freedom, total free will to do whatever he wants in a given situation.

In a given situation, Daniel has always been free to do whatever he wishes to do, moral or immoral, legal or illegal, the result of which he can never be sure. So in such circumstances what is it that Daniel wants most in life? That is what I talk about! Not philosophy. So from this aspect, what is the happiness you are expecting to get and which you are seeking?

DANIEL You are asking me now?

RAMESH Yes, I am asking you now. I am telling you what is the basis of daily living, which you know from your own life’s daily experience. In these circumstances, what precisely is the happiness that Daniel is seeking?

DANIEL It will be hard to know because I don’t know what the next moment can bring.

RAMESH And that is what I am talking about. In other words, I don’t know whether I am going to get any pleasure in the next moment, and therefore in this moment, whether I am enjoying pleasure or suffering pain, I am still seeking happiness. Therefore, at this present moment, whether I am enjoying pleasure or suffering pain, I am still seeking happiness. So what is the happiness I am seeking, which has nothing to do with whether I am enjoying pleasure in the moment or pain in the moment, over which I have no control? That is precisely what I talk about.

What does someone like us, reasonably comfortable in life, precisely want?

At this moment, what is it that makes you want happiness whether you are suffering pain or enjoying pleasure? What is it that you want? Either way, whether you are suffering pain or enjoying pleasure in the moment. Every human being knows that, that is the fact of life which no one can change. In the game of life, that is the basic rule. If there is pain, I will have to suffer pain. That is something accepted, something that we have to accept. In other words, what I am saying is that the happiness that I am seeking cannot consist of wanting more pleasure and less pain.

What is the happiness I cannot have? The happiness I cannot have is, increasing the pleasure and decreasing the pain that has already been decided by God. Otherwise what is the happiness I want? More pleasure, less pain. You can’t have it. It’s already pre-determined.

These are the facts of life over which no one has any control. Even if God took human form, he will still have to, in that human form, follow the rules of this basic life.

DANIEL So is the problem in wanting the happiness?

RAMESH No, the problem is in knowing what is the happiness that you want – whether you are enjoying pleasure in the moment or suffering pain in the moment? More accurately, why do I want happiness when I am enjoying pleasure? When I am suffering pain, I know that I want happiness. Even when I am enjoying pleasure, I still want happiness! That is a fact of life! So, when I am enjoying pleasure what is the happiness I want?

DANIEL More pleasure.

RAMESH You cannot have more pleasure.

DANIEL Something that is beyond pleasure and pain.

RAMESH So what is it? That is the point. So I’m going step by step, because I talk to you from my own personal happiness. I sought happiness or self-enlightenment for forty years. And it ended in frustration. Nobody could tell me what is enlightenment. No one could tell me, not even the scriptures could tell me, what enlightenment could do for me, in this life, that I didn’t have before.

Therefore, when I retired from work, I decided that I would not pursue enlightenment. It was nothing but frustration. I will pursue happiness. So even when I am enjoying pleasure what is the happiness that I want? So Daniel, from your own experience, what is it?

DANIEL I would say that even when I enjoy pleasure, it is always with a pinch of dissatisfaction because I know it’s not going to last.

RAMESH What is the ‘pinch of dissatisfaction’ when you are trying to enjoy pleasure, Daniel?

DANIEL I would say that I experience it as an inability to completely give myself up to this.

RAMESH You are enjoying pleasure, food or sex or whatever it is. What more happiness do you want from your own experience? What more happiness do you want? And what is your experience Daniel?

It is the experience of every human being that when he is in the midst of enjoying the pleasure, that pleasure gets shattered. You are not allowed to enjoy that pleasure in full intensity. Why? Because something happens and shatters that pleasure. Again, you’re suffering in pain. You have accepted that pain. Say, you are a really sick person. You will know from experience that I cannot avoid pain. So if there is pain, you have accepted the pain and you are suffering the pain. What happens is that you have accepted the pain, you are suffering the pain, but something happens and intensifies that pain. You have accepted the pain, physical or psychological. If it is a physical pain, you will take an Aspirin and try to reduce it to the extent possible. Thereafter you have accepted the pain and you are suffering the pain.

What is your experience? Your experience is that something happened and that intensified the pain. See what I mean? And therefore, the happiness that I am seeking is the negative happiness – which is the end of this suffering.

And what is the end of this suffering, this suffering which you would want to be ended, which you call happiness? Shattering of the pleasure you are enjoying or the intensity of your pain being increased. I am talking from personal experience.

I am an intelligent person and I know millions of people are living under the poverty line. God has put me in a reasonably comfortable level in life for which I am forever grateful to Him. I know for a fact that there is nothing I can do to avoid pain or increase pleasure. Therefore I have made up my mind. I have accepted this, that when the pleasure is there, I will enjoy it and when the pain is there, I will suffer it. And yet I am seeking happiness. So what is that happiness I am seeking in spite of accepting totally the pleasure as it happens and the pain as it happens?

When you go into it, this is what happens. I have accepted the basic rule of life. I have accepted that pleasure and pain will alternate. Therefore, because I have accepted the pleasure, I enjoy the pleasure; and because I have accepted the pain, I suffer the pain. But my experience is, over which I have no control, that my pleasure in the moment, gets shattered and my pain in the moment gets intensified.

I have accepted the basis of life but I don’t want my pleasure in the moment to be shattered and my pain in the moment being intensified. That is all I want!

And that is the happiness which I am pursuing. See what I mean? Therefore, the most important conclusion I have come to is that the pursuit of happiness does not mean anything positive. Anything positive will only mean pleasure in the moment or pain in the moment. Therefore the most important conclusion is that the happiness which I am seeking is not to be found in the pleasures of life over which I have no control. In other words, my happiness does not depend on the flow of life.

So the acceptance of that is the first step. This leads me to the conclusion that the happiness which I am seeking cannot be something positive. The happiness which I am seeking can only mean the end of suffering which comes in the way of my happiness. My happiness depends on this suffering being ended. And what is the suffering which I want ended? My pleasure in the moment not being shattered and my pain in the moment not being intensified. That is all the happiness I want. Nothing positive. Not ecstasy, bliss etc. Ecstasy, bliss or whatever religion has promised you, can only be in the realm of pleasure because they end. You can’t be in bliss all the time and live your daily life. If you’re in bliss all the time or if you’re in pain all the time – how can you live your life? How can you earn a living?

Therefore, what is the suffering which I want to end? That suffering is my pleasure in the moment being shattered, my pain in the moment being increased. That is the suffering I want ended and that is the happiness I am seeking. The first and most important step in my pursuit of happiness, from my own personal experience, was that the happiness I am seeking is not from the pleasures of life which are momentary, and therefore the happiness I am seeking is not to be found in the flow of life itself! Because the flow of life can only mean pleasure or pain. Most important first conclusion.

Therefore the happiness which I am seeking, the end of the suffering, can depend only on my attitude to life. This is the most important first conclusion.

And that is what was happening – my seeking enlightenment ending in frustration because I expected enlightenment to give me happiness which was in the flow of life. That is why there was frustration.

So this is the base of my pursuit of happiness. I have to find out what has been my attitude to life so far, which has not brought me the happiness but has brought me unhappiness. Step by step. First conclusion: my attitude to life. Second conclusion: what has been my attitude to life so far, which has not brought me happiness but which has brought me unhappiness – so that I can change my attitude to life in order to bring happiness.

So what do I mean by ‘my attitude to life’? ‘Attitude to life’ is a generic term. That is what took me a lot of time, lot of thinking, lot of misery. What was the answer I got? Think for yourself. What does Daniel mean by his ‘attitude to life’?

For me it was the most important mental or intellectual exercise. Whatever answers I got, I threw them out having found them very inadequate.

I did this until I came to the one answer which I came to accept as the right answer, the adequate answer. “What I mean by my attitude to life ultimately, in daily living, comes from my attitude towards the other.” Attitude to life! People enjoying, people living under the poverty line. My attitude to life is such a vast thing but the important conclusion is, I cannot be concerned with anything that happens because whatever happens is God’s Will / Cosmic Law.

My attitude to life can only mean my attitude towards the other, from morning to night. What is the essence of daily living, from morning to night? My relationship with the other! Human relations. Inter-human relations is the basis of daily living. Most important conclusion to come to. The essence of daily living means inter-human relationships, from morning to night. Me and the other! The other may be some close relative, my wife, my parents, my brother or even a neighbour or someone connected to my business or occupation or a total stranger.

Now, what has been my relation with the other, whoever the other is, which has not brought me the happiness but unhappiness?

Look at the crucial thing in this. What do I mean by happiness? You don’t know! Now I have come to the conclusion that the happiness which I have been seeking depends on my relation with the other whoever the other is, closest relative or the farthest friend.

So the next question became simple. What has been my relation with the other so far, whoever the other is, closest relative or farthest friend, which has brought me unhappiness and not happiness? That is the crucial question because if I change that attitude, I will have happiness.

So what has Daniel’s attitude been towards the other, whoever the other is, closest relative or the farthest friend, which has not brought him happiness but unhappiness? If you are pursuing happiness, this is the question you will come to. So what would you say has been Daniel’s attitude so far in life which has not brought him happiness but unhappiness? Your own experience!

DANIEL Oh, so many things!

RAMESH So many things coming down to what? So many things which can be brought down to one centre. So many things, so many different people, is that what you mean?

DANIEL Yes, different relations.

RAMESH Closest relation to the farthest stranger, hundreds of people.

DANIEL Every person reflects a different attitude in myself so…

RAMESH So what has been your attitude towards the other? Hundreds of others during the day or during the year. From your own personal experience. Think all you want and do you know what is the conclusion you will come to, if you are honest with yourself? The only conclusion you will come to, if you are honest with yourself, whoever the other is, closest relative or distant stranger, your attitude towards the other has always been one of suspicion, fear and rivalry.

Suspicion and fear, whoever the other is. If he wants something from you – which you have and he doesn’t – he may take it from you. And for taking it from you, he may hurt you or kill you.

DANIEL So it is a kind of an survival instinct.

RAMESH Survival against the other. Fear that the other may not allow you to survive in the circumstances in which you want to survive. Am I right or am I wrong? How many times you may have read in the newspaper about how a father has killed his son or a brother has killed his brother, a friend has killed a friend over a dispute over property, or love or passion or whatever? Isn’t that right?

Therefore I say, think all you want, form your own conclusions rather than accepting my conclusion. Better to come to your own conclusion, from your own experience, that your relation with the other is based on suspicion, fear and rivalry.

So if your relation with the other, whoever the other is, is based on suspicion, fear and rivalry, how can you be happy? And this has been the story of inter-human relationships from time immemorial.

What I described to you has been happening for hundreds and thousands of years. A kingdom, two heirs, one heir kills the other in order to rule the kingdom. Whatever the property, fifty thousand dollars or one million dollars, one kills and the other wants to take the whole thing. Isn’t that right? Therefore, I repeat, think it out on your own. You don’t have to accept my conviction. My conviction has been that the human being is not happy because his relation with the other, whoever the other is, is not harmonious but is based on suspicion, fear and rivalry. And that the human being can be happy only if his relationship with the other is totally harmonious.

And what is totally harmonious? Never being afraid of the other harming me in any way! I don’t have to fear the other. That is the totally harmonious relation. And why has it not happened for all these thousands of year? And do you know the conclusion I came to Daniel? The conclusion I came to is that pursuing happiness is stupid because God never intended the human being to be happy. God intended inter-human relationships to be based on suspicion, fear and rivalry. Therefore he made uncertainty as the very basis of daily living. And he made the inter-human relationships to be based on suspicion, fear and rivalry.

Therefore in my pursuit of happiness, the conclusion I came to was that it was stupid to pursue happiness. All I can do is to accept the pleasure and pain as they happen and accept also my pleasure being shattered and my pain being intensified. That also I had to accept and that is the only happiness that I can have.

In other words, I came to the conclusion that God never intended any human being to be totally happy. Isn’t that right?

DANIEL I don’t know.

RAMESH Where are the loose ends? Why do you say ‘I don’t know’? Have I not made it absolutely clear?

DANIEL Well, from my experience, this happiness has nothing to do with pleasure and pain. And this harmony you talk about, I regard it as a natural state with regards to me.

RAMESH So what is the happiness which God intended you to have?

DANIEL It’s exactly this harmony where I can trust the other person…

RAMESH So why have you distrusted that person? Why has no human being – except the very, very few exceptions who say ‘Yes, I am happy’; ‘I am enlightened’ – been able to change this? I pursued this, and then the most important conclusion I came to is that the happiness I am seeking depending upon the harmonious relationship with the other – I did get it – and that itself is enlightenment!

In other words, enlightenment means having my real nature, reaching my real nature. And my real nature is happiness. That is the conclusion I came to; but at that point of time, I decided that God never intended any human being to be happy.

Tell me, could you have reached any other conclusion? Tell me.

DANIEL Yes.

RAMESH Tell me.

DANIEL AS a human being, I have the capacity to live harmoniously with the other…

RAMESH Have you had it?

DANIEL At certain times.

RAMESH So if you have had the capacity, why have you not been able to have a harmonious relationship with the other without the suspicion and fear?

DANIEL Sometimes.

RAMESH Sometimes is not the point. Everytime! Sometimes is something everybody experiences. Sometimes everyone has done it.

DANIEL Hmm…

RAMESH But unless you are ready to do it everytime, you cannot be happy.

DANIEL So how is that…

RAMESH Aah! Therefore I decided that it is not possible. It is possible to do it sometimes, but not everytime. Therefore I decided God never intended man to be happy. And therefore the maximum happiness is to accept the pleasure and pain that has happened including the shattering of the pleasure and the intensification of the pain.

And I had totally accepted it. Not with resentment. That is the way it is supposed to be according to God’s Will.

Therefore I accepted this without any resentment, as a fact of life, with total humility knowing that there is nothing I can do about it. And then when I had totally surrendered my pursuit of happiness, I got the answer from outside.

What do I mean by “answer from the outside”? The answer did not come to me from my intellect nor from my heart. The ‘outside’ can only mean God or the Source. The answer came to me in specific terms. “You are wrong. My intention has never been to make the human being unhappy. On the contrary, my intention for the human being was that it should be their birthright to be happy. But that birthright depended only on one factor and the human being has not accepted that factor. The human being has rejected that factor. And that is why the human being is unhappy. And the cruel joke is that, that one factor is the basis of every religion.”

This is the answer I got. I repeat, “It is always been my intention that happiness be the birthright of every human being and that has depended on one factor but the human being has rejected that one factor.”

Earlier I had considered that question. Why have there been so many religious wars? Can there not be one basis for all religions so that religious wars do not happen? The very fact that so many religious wars have happened can only mean that there cannot be one basis of every religion. But now my answer from God is, “There is one basis for all religions but the human being has rejected it!” So my next step was quite clear.

From that basis, with the total acceptance that happiness does not depend on the flow of life but on my attitude towards the other, I asked myself, “What is the basis of every religion?” And then I came across four beautiful words from the Bible, which I had come across so many times, almost twenty or thirty times. And those four words are: ‘Thy Will be done’. Daniel, do you know those words? Do you believe in those words? What do they mean?

They don’t need any interpretation. Do you know what Advaita Vedanta said? This is fullness and if you take away some, the fullness remains. You add fullness to it and the same fullness remains. That’s not easy to understand, is it?

And that is what the Source says and that is in Advaita. But the Bible says – the Advaita is not concerned with daily living though I use the Advaita for daily living – ‘Thy will be done’. I honestly cannot imagine four words which are simpler to understand. For me it is so clear. What it means is ‘Thy Will be done’. It means that no one else’s Will be done. Thy Will be done, therefore mine will not be done. Necessarily, which means nothing can happen unless it is God’s Will.

Isn’t that right? Thy Will be done which means nothing can happen unless it is God’s Will. And I added ‘Cosmic Law’ for those who don’t like the idea of a God. Now that is another interesting point. If I say ‘Thy Will be done’ to an atheist and tell him that nothing can happen unless God wills it to happen, the aethist will tell me “Ramesh, please do not talk to me about God. I don’t believe in God.”

Suppose an aethist tells me “I don’t believe in God”, what do you think my response will be?

DANIEL Call it something else.

RAMESH No, no. Whatever you call it, it is God!

DANIEL But you would say that to the atheist.

RAMESH My response would be “I agree with you.” Do you know why? What is the basis on which the atheist says “I do not believe in God”?

I agree with him because the atheist says that what I am told, what my religion tells me, is that God is up there, an old man sitting there, with a big beard, keeping a track, by using a computer, of every sin which every human being does and waiting for him to finish his life and come to me and then I will punish him.

That idea or concept of God I am not prepared to accept and I say I will agree with him. What is the idea of God which 99 per cent of people have? What is the idea of God that you have? An entity, an all-powerful entity. Isn’t that the idea you have? All-knowing, all-powerful entity. Whereas you and I are helpless entities. Whatever happens to us is because of what that entity does to us. Therefore we must pray to that all-powerful entity and say “Please, increase my pleasure and lessen my pain.”

And that is what prayer means? Isn’t it? Praying to the Almighty, the all-powerful God asking him to increase my pleasure and lessen my pain.

That is the God the atheist does not believe in, nor do I believe in.

What is the God I believe in? God is the Source. The One Unmanifest singularity, the one unmanifest Oneness which has itself become the manifestation, the functioning of which is our daily living, the basis of which is duality.

The One Source has become the duality in manifestation. And this functioning we call life, beginning with male and female. The One unmanifest has become the manifest duality, male and female and every conceivable duality – good and evil, beautiful and ugly, wealth and poverty, health and disease. Every kind of duality, interconnected opposites.

This means if you have one, you’ve got to have the other. You cannot have wealth without poverty. You cannot have health without disease. You cannot have a saint unless you have a psychopath. See what I mean?

Therefore my idea was the Source, One Source, which had become this. No human sitting on the throne, judging the human being. That is my idea of God! And nothing can happen unless it is the Will of God which means the One Singularity has become the manifest duality and whatever is supposed to happen has already been pre-determined.

The movie of life is already complete and in the can! We are witnessing the movie of life frame by frame by frame, whereas the movie is already in the can.

Therefore there is no God waiting to punish anybody. God knows that whatever has to happen will happen according to His Will, according to His script, the divine script. Everything has happened according to His divine script which is meant by ‘Thy Will be done’. ‘Thy Will be done’ is the divine script.

Nothing can happen unless it is God’s Will and Islam says the very same thing. The Hindu religion says the same thing in a more powerful way. Do you know what the Hindu religion says? The Bible says ‘Thy Will be done’. The Hindu religion says ‘Thou art the doer, thou art the experiencer’. Why? Because you are the only Reality. You are the one single Source.

“Thou art the doer, thou art the experiencer. Thou art the speaker, thou art the listener.” It looks as if Ramesh speaks, Daniel listens. Daniel speaks, Ramesh listens. But if both of us were in deep sleep or sedated into unconsciousness, neither of us would be able to speak nor listen. Isn’t that right? Therefore if we were sedated into unconsciousness, none of us would be talking and listening.

Then it is clear who is doing the talking and who is doing the listening. It means Consciousness as the Source or God is doing the talking through one instrument and listening through another instrument. Talking through that instrument, listening through this instrument.

And based on that, I had my concept on enlightenment. That is another point I came to. I was seeking enlightenment as if enlightenment was a certified event. Now I came to know that enlightenment can only be a concept. An individual concept, my concept of enlightenement.

What is my concept of enlightenment? Based on this, my concept of enlightenment means: “Everything in the world is a happening according to God’s Will / Cosmic Law. How each happening affects whom, for better or for worse – a happening hurts someone or a happening helps someone – that also is according to God’s Will / Cosmic Law. And through which body-mind instrument that happening happens, which the society calls my action or your action, his action or her action, is also according to God’s Will / Cosmic Law.

No human being is capable of doing anything. Total acceptance of this concept is enlightenment.”

My second question, which is more important: What will enlightenement do for me that I did not have before? And the answer is, the happiness that I get by accepting totally that I cannot be the doer nor can you be the doer means immediately, the total collapse of the load of guilt and shame which I have been carrying for the other and the bigger load of hatred for the other for their actions in hurting me.

The entire load of hatred, hatred for myself for hurting others and the much bigger load of hatred for others for their actions in hurting me – the entire load of hatred disappears. And that is the load of hatred which would be suffering, which had the power to shatter my pleasure in the moment or intensify my pain of the moment.

I am enjoying something now. Then, a memory of something I had done to hurt my father for which he has never forgiven me…a memory of that arises and my pleasure is shattered and my pain is intensified. Or something which a personal friend or my brother did to me, for which I have never really forgiven him…a memory of that incident has the power to increase or intensify my pain.

Once I am able to accept totally that the human being is incapable of doing anything, good or evil; once I am able to accept totally that a happening happens – whether it means good things for someone or bad things for the other is not in my control. I am merely an instrument through which a happening happens which the society calls my deed and for which the society rewards me or punishes me. Reward from the society means pleasure; punishment from the society means pain. And that is daily living.

So, as I was saying, I pursued enlightenment as the supreme happiness – which is the impression I had been given. I pursued enlightenment as the supreme achievement…which brought me frustration.

Now I know that that the happiness which I pursued is my very nature and that depends on my accepting totally that I cannot do anything to hurt anyone. No one can do anything to hurt me. We are all instruments through which the Source or Consciousness or Energy or God functions and brings about whatever is supposed to happen according to the Cosmic Law.

What is the basis of this? The human brain is incapable of knowing the basis. Why? Because the Cosmic Law concerns the entire universe for all times. The universal or Cosmic Law does not concern only one planet in one solar system, among thousands of solar systems and six billion inhabitants on that planet.

Therefore what happens? ‘Thy Will’ or ‘according to the Cosmic Law’. We cannot question it. We have to accept it. If you are able to accept it, that is enlightenment, that is happiness. That means the end of suffering. Sufffering being that which intensifies the pain in the moment and shatters the pleasure in the moment. Okay, Daniel? So any questions?

DANIEL The question that comes up is that after knowing this…

RAMESH The only point is that the acceptance of this concept must be total.

DANIEL What is the practical way you suggest to totally accept? In our nature it is hard to totally accept and be totally devoted.

RAMESH So what you are saying is that Daniel is not sure whether his acceptance would ever be total?

DANIEL That’s true.

RAMESH Daniel, intellectually, even a damn fool will accept this concept because this means the end of suffering.

DANIEL I have no problem accepting it intellectually.

RAMESH Aah! Therefore the question is how can my intellectual acceptance become total acceptance? Since you are not the doer, there is nothing you can do about it. Therefore it means that it will happen only if it is supposed to happen, according to the Cosmic Law and your destiny.

Then a valid question arises. While I am waiting for something to happen, while I am waiting for God to make up His mind, is there not something I can do for spiritual practice? Have you been doing some practices now? What have you been doing?

DANIEL Meditation and Yoga.

RAMESH So your question is that now, knowing that I can’t do anything because I am not the doer, what do I do about the various spiritual practices I have been doing? Valid question, isn’t it?

DANIEL It does not conflict with the practice, I think.

RAMESH Why? You are not the doer.

DANIEL I find my meditation practice enables me to surrender.

RAMESH So what you are saying is that your spiritual practices bring you pleasure.

DANIEL Not always.

RAMESH Not always? So when do your spiritual practices not bring you pleasure?

DANIEL They bring pleasure and pain. It’s just being with whatever there is.

RAMESH When do your spiritual practices not bring you pain?

DANIEL Depends. If I am sitting for meditation and pleasure likewise.

RAMESH In other words, are you doing the spiritual practices because you feel you are forced to do them or you do them because you like doing them?

DANIEL I don’t always like to do them. I feel it’s something I am compelled to do.

RAMESH You are forced to do it, compelled to do it.

DANIEL Not compelled but…

RAMESH You used the word ‘compel’…

DANIEL I don’t know if ‘compel’ is the right word but it’s something I do naturally, already.

RAMESH So my answer to that is simple. Whenever you feel like doing it because it gives you pleasure, do it. Whenever you feel, you would rather not do it, for whatever reason, don’t do it. In a given situation, you have the total free will to do whatever you like.

DANIEL I feel that to get a sense of this total freedom, sometimes I need to, in a way, discipline my mind.

RAMESH The only thing to understand is that whatever spiritual practices you may do, they will not bring you the ultimate freedom because those are the practices which you are doing. And you cannot be the doer.

Therefore, for all the existing spiritual practices – do them if you like to do them; give them up if you don’t like to do them. But then another question still remains. While I am waiting for God to make up His mind, is there not something which I can do to pass time? Because I am used to doing some spiritual practices with the understanding that that spiritual practice will have nothing to do with the ultimate result. Just to pass time. It is a valid question.

And for that I do have a suggestion which I call personal investigation. Very, very simple matter because you are not really doing anything. If you find the time to do it during the day, you are free to do it any day. But if you don’t find time during the day, then at the end of the day, take ten minutes off, sit quietly, and be comfortable. This is not a discipline. Take the most comfortable seat and have a glass of beer if that makes you more comfortable and do some very simple personal investigation. Personal investigation of a particular action which you are sure is your action.

If you go through the events of the day, you will come to the conclusion that most of the events were happening over which you had no control and you were only a part of the happening. So from those events, choose one event, one action, which Daniel is sure is my action. Others I do not know, but this one is my action. And then investigate it. The investigation is simple.

If I consider this particular action as my action, then, did I decide to do that action at a particular time? And then you will realize “No, I didn’t”. And then you will realise that if I did not decide to do it then how did the action happen? And then you will remember that you had a thought and that thought led to your action. If that thought would not have happened, your action would not have happened. You had no control over the happening of that thought because no one can have any control over what the next thought is going to be. No one can know what the next thought is going to be.

It comes from the Source or God or Consciousness. If that thought would not have happened, your action would not have happened. And you had no control over that thought. How can you call that action your action? You have done the investigation yourself and come to the conclusion that the one action you were sure was your action turns out, from your own investigation, to be not your action, then your acceptance must go considerably deeper.

And I can assure you that you can investigate any number of actions, and every single time, without exception, you will keep coming to the conclusion “not my action”, “not my action”, and each time your acceptance will go deeper and deeper. If I had not happened to be at a certain place or time and seen something, my action would not have happened. And I had no control at being at that time, at that place. And much more important, but for some happening, which I happened to see, or hear, or smell, or taste, or touch, my action would not have happened. How can I call it my action? And each time the understanding goes deeper and deeper until at a particular moment of time, if is your destiny, God’s Will / Cosmic Law, a divine flash is likely to happen: “I simply cannot be the doer.”

And once that divine flash happens, there will be no more doubt that neither you are the doer nor anyone else is the doer. And then there is no more doubt and your acceptance will be total.

Okay, Daniel? So, if during the day any questions arise, you are free to come again and we will deal with them. If there are any questions or doubts or even comments, we will deal with them. Are you likely to be here for a few more days?

DANIEL Yes, three or four more days.

RAMESH So come again and we will deal with them, whether they are questions or comments.