Hansard, once again, carried it thus:
23. Mr Emrys Price-Canning asked the Secretary of State for the Scheduled Territories Office if he can state how long Dinamaula Maula, chief-designate of the Maulas of Pharamaul, will be detained in Port Victoria, and when he will be permitted to return to Gamate.
The Secretary of State for the Scheduled Territories Office (Lord Lorde): Chief-designate Dinamaula will remain in Port Victoria as long as is considered necessary, in the interests of the maintenance of public order.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Cannot my right hon. Friend give us a more specific answer?
Lord Lorde: No, sir.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Can my right hon. Friend tell us what precisely is this threat to public order, and whether it really exists outside the minds of a certain clique of local civil servants?
Lord Lorde: I entirely repudiate the suggestion that there is a clique of any sort in Pharamaul. On the other hand, there is ample evidence that Dinamaula acts as a centre of disturbance, and must remain absent from Gamate.
An Hon. Member: Indefinitely?
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Can the Minister give us some of this ample evidence?
Hon. Members: Answer.
Lord Lorde: I am satisfied with the facts as I have presented them from time to time in the House.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Never mind about from time to time. I’m talking about now, Thursday afternoon. Let’s hear what sort of ample evidence –
Hon. Members: Order.
Mr Speaker: If the hon. Member has a supplementary question to put, he should cast it in the normal phraseology.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: OK. What is the –
Hon. Members: Order.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Can the Minister communicate to the House the evidence of disturbance, or whatever it is, which is being used as a pretext to keep Dinamaula away from the capital?
Lord Lorde: I do not like the word pretext, but in the interests of general amity, I will let it pass. I can assure the hon. Member that our officials on the spot have produced ample evidence to justify the present ban on Dinamaula.
An Hon. Member: Let’s hear it, then.
Hon. Members: Answer.
Lord Lorde: I have nothing to add to my statement of last Friday.
Mr C Merrivale: Do you mean that things are just the same, that they haven’t got worse?
Lord Lorde: They certainly have not changed for the better.
24. Mr Emrys Price-Canning asked the Secretary of State for the Scheduled Territories Office if he can now state when Dinamaula Maula will be proclaimed chief of his tribe.
Lord Lorde: I regret that this is not an appropriate moment to forecast such a development.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: What is the extraordinary veil of secrecy surrounding this matter? The Minister seems to have erected a sort of Gestapo barricade around Dinamaula. Is he, or is he not, going to be proclaimed chief? If so, when? If not, why not? It’s as simple as that.
Lord Lorde: My hon. Friend knows very well that it is not as simple as that. For my part, I would like to say that I deplore the use of tendentious expressions such as “Gestapo” and “barricade”.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Mr Speaker, sir, may I have an answer to my question, question number 24. When is Dinamaula going to be proclaimed chief of his tribe?
Hon. Members: Answer.
Lord Lorde: It really depends on what happens in the future.
Hon. Members: Oh.
Mr Sermon: Does my right hon. Friend mean, by that extraordinarily feeble reply, that the Government are so bankrupt of ideas that they are prepared to sit around and –
Hon. Members: Order.
Confused interruption.
Mr Speaker: Order. Question No. 25.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: On a point of order. I am still waiting for number 24.
Mr Speaker: Number 24 has already been adequately answered.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: What a racket.
Col. Meldrum: Sir, on a point of order. Is the expression “What a racket” a parliamentary expression?
Mr Speaker: I did not hear such an expression. If I had done so, I would have ruled it as unparliamentary. Let us proceed. Number 25.
25. Major the Hon. George Bellows asked the Secretary of State for the Scheduled Territories Office if he can state how long the state of emergency proclaimed in the Principality of Pharamaul will continue.
Lord Lorde: I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to my reply to the first question put by my hon. Friend, the Member for South Oxford.
Hon. Members: Oh.
Major the Hon. George Bellows: Seeing what we’ve already heard this afternoon, I honestly hoped for a better answer.
An Hon. Member: Order.
Major the Hon. George Bellows: Mr Speaker, sir, if I’ve said anything wrong, I’m sorry. I can’t always find my way about –
An Hon. Member: Speech.
Mr Speaker: Has the hon. and gallant Member for Boddlecoombe East a supplementary question to put?
Major the Hon. George Bellows: Well, yes, I suppose I have. All I wanted to know was, how long is this sort of thing going on?
Lord Lorde: I am always glad to rescue the hon. and gallant Member from the intricacies of civilian thought –
An Hon. Member: Come off it.
Lord Lorde: But I really have nothing to add to my answer. The state of emergency in Pharamaul will last as long as our officials in the Territory feel that the maintenance of public order demands it.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Arising out of that, is the Minister aware that one of these so-called officials in the Territory, on whom he seems to place such reliance, saw fit to call the Maulas a bunch of gangsters, and does he honestly think –
Lord Lorde: I would like to correct my hon. Friend. The word “gangster” was, it is true, applied by a minor official to certain subversive elements in the tribe. Though it was used in a moment of stress, it is a word I deplore, and the official concerned has received a reprimand.
An Hon. Member: He should have been sacked.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: How do you know that all the officials out there don’t think the same way?
Lord Lorde: We are entirely satisfied, by and large, with our official representation in Pharamaul.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Well, I’m not.
Confused interruption.
I would like to ask the Minister –
Mr Speaker: Is this a supplementary question, within the normal terms of parliamentary usage?
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: Yes, sir.
Mr Speaker: Very well.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: How long is the present Gestapo tyranny in Pharamaul going to continue?
Mr Sermon: On a point of order –
Major the Hon. George Bellows also rose.
Hon. Members: Answer.
Mr Emrys Price-Canning: I’m going to get to the bottom of this. You can’t cover up any longer. I’m going to move the adjournment of the House to debate this thing as a matter of urgent public importance.
Confused interruption.
Mr Speaker rose.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will resume their seats.