Chapter 5

How to Keep a Conversation Going — Small Talk and More

Now that you have gained someone’s attention, you have 20 seconds to keep it. What do you say after the initial back-and-forth talk of open-ended and closed-ended questions? And what do you say when the other person asks you an open-ended question in return? This chapter is going to walk you through the transition from introductory conversation into full-on small talk, including when to switch from small talk to more personal conversation.

Why Make Small Talk?

Small talk starts with the first round of introductory questions and answers, and this continues until the point where one party starts to deepen the conversation by revealing some personal details. Most people tend to look down on small talk, seeing it as a barrier to actually getting to know people, but it is actually an extremely useful tool to have in your communications portfolio. Making small talk encourages the more meaningful kind of conversation that people are hungry for in several ways.

First, small talk serves as a social litmus test for whether a person wants to talk. As previously mentioned, if a person answers a question in short sentences or with mostly “yes” or “no” answers, she is not that interested in talking with you.

Once both people in a conversation have signaled they want to talk, small talk lets you and the other person feel each other out, determining whether you want to talk to the person first of all, and once you have decided to continue the conversation, exchanging basic information about yourselves. In the process, you can establish what common ground you have. In the course of revealing this information, both of you are also likely to reveal some topics that you are very interested in, and if you listen carefully, you can tell what those topics are and talk about them in the course of the conversation. Essentially, small talk is a gateway to the kind of meaningful conversation people dream of having with each other.

How to Make Small Talk

Active listening

One of the fears of making small talk with someone is that at some point in the conversation, you will have nothing to say. There you are, listening to someone talk about the goat herd his grandmother has, and when he finishes, you realize to your horror that you have no idea what to say back. What can you possibly say in return that both you and he will find relevant?

If you find yourself in this situation, the odds are good that you were suffering from a fairly common conversational affliction — you were not paying attention to what the other person was saying. Instead, the moment he started talking about the goat herd, you thought to yourself, “Oh, great, so his grandmother has a goat herd. What do you say to someone who’s just said that his grandmother has a goat herd?” Instead of actually listening to what your new friend had to say, you had focused all your attention on yourself, leaving you at a loss when it was your turn to speak. This is especially common with shy or scared people, so if this has happened to you, do not worry. It does not mean you are an egomaniac. All you have to do is learn to actively listen in order to notice pieces of information you can use to continue the conversation.

Active listening is a big part of making small talk. When you listen actively, you are signaling that you are taking the conversation and the other people in it seriously. They will participate more in the conversation as a result, and everyone will benefit. Part of active listening comes from practicing good body language. You know this already: leaning forward, maintaining eye contact, and nodding to show you understand what is being said. The other part of active listening has to do with knowing what you are listening for.

Where to start

One of the best pieces of advice on asking an open-ended question is to ask a question about your surroundings. Look around you and come up with an open-ended question based on that. Sometimes this can be obvious, such as asking someone at a party how he knows the host, or asking someone at a convention what company or organization he is with. Other times, it might be trickier. On a bus, you might want to ask someone where he is headed, or if he rides the bus often.

The trick is to look around you and ask the other person questions based on what you observe. You may be tempted to do the opposite, though — asking the other person questions based on your own thoughts and feelings. It is tempting, and it can seem like a good idea because you get to tell the other person something about yourself and try to elicit a response back from him. More often, unfortunately, this results in your getting too personal before the other person is comfortable with you. This can sabotage a conversation, as the other person will then close himself off from you. Looking outward gives you more hooks from which you can choose.

The ripple theory of conversation

When you toss a rock into water, a series of ripples spread outward. If multiple rocks are thrown, the ripples intersect with each other until they reach the edge of the water. Conversations are like that, too. Starting with the core topic that you selected when you first talked to the other person, you can then go to the next “ripple,” or layer out, broadening the scope of your conversation. For instance, if you start up a conversation at work, you can begin by talking about your department, then expand the conversation to include the entire business. From there, you can talk about the industry as a whole.

Another example of using the ripple theory of conversation is when you meet someone in a grocery store. You can discuss the section of the grocery store you are in, then expand outward to talk about the entire grocery store. From there, you can talk about the businesses in that section of town, the town itself, and from there, discuss the county or the state.

If you use the ripple theory of conversation, you will never run out of things to talk about. Even if you feel you have expanded the conversation as far as it can go in one circle, eventually the topic will intersect with another circle, allowing you to segue onto a different topic entirely. For instance, if you have expanded the conversation in the grocery store example to include your city, you can transition to another topic by discussing the city in which you both live, then asking the other person what other cities they would like to live in or have lived in. After they reply, you can follow up with an open-ended question about the city itself, then expand outward from there.

Information Trapping

While you are listening to someone else speak in a conversation, you will want to be aware of the personal information he gives to you. The information he gives out can be used to discover what interests you have in common, then used to carry on the conversation.

Be on the alert for these types of personal information:

These items are just a sampling of personal information that someone will reveal about him or herself in the course of a conversation.

What is Your Job?

Finding out what someone does for a living is a pretty common ritual question that will give you an important bit of personal information about the other person. However, asking the question outright can be embarrassing for some. If the person you are talking to is unemployed, you and he may be in for an uncomfortable silence when he admits it. Of course, he may have a job that he does not want to talk about, like being a coroner or a banker who specialized in subprime mortgages. Stay-at-home parents might also have trouble answering this.

Fortunately, there is a way to ask what someone does for a living in a way that completely sidesteps the potential minefield. Instead of asking what someone’s job is, instead ask what your conversation partner does with his time. This leaves your partner free to focus on the things he does that are important to him, and he can avoid the issue of unemployment altogether if he wants. You are bound to get a more interesting answer, and probably reap more personal information because of it.

When someone reveals a piece of information that you want them to talk about further, ask a question about what he was saying. Journalists refer to this as asking a follow-up question, and while an interviewee might not always like being pressed for more information, the people you are talking with definitely will.

The best follow-up questions to ask are open-ended. This keeps the attention firmly on the person you are talking to, and it also lets him know that you are interested in what he has to say. Of course, you can also use a closed-ended question if he says something you do not understand or that seems unclear. A close-ended type of question also lets your conversation partner know you are listening, but too many close-ended questions in a row can appear as though you are grilling him, or that you really were not paying close attention.

Summarizing

If you have been in a particularly involved discussion or talked about a complex subject like politics or economics, you might want to show that you have been listening by summing up the other person’s stance on the issue. You can preface this by signaling you are going to summarize by saying something along the lines of, “So what you are saying is…” or “So if I understand you correctly…” After you have finished, you can ask the other person to comment on your summary by saying “Is that right?” or “Is that what you meant?” This allows the other person either elaborate on his stance or correct your summary.

Summarizing is one of the best ways to hone your skills at listening actively. It forces you to pay attention to what the other person is saying, and it makes your mind organize thoughts in a way you can understand.

Summaries go hand-in-hand with another conversation tool that shows you are listening — giving examples. When you talk to someone, give an example of the point she is trying to make, as in this example:

Other person: “What I am saying is that high school students are not worldly enough. Did you know that over 90 percent of European high school students have been to a different country by the time they graduate, as opposed to just 12 percent of American high school students?”

You: “So you think that high schools should organize more class trips to different countries?”

Other person: “Exactly. Even if it is just driving over the northern border to Canada, they would get an idea of what a different culture is like.”

In order to provide a good example, you will have to use the same listening and mental organization skills that summarizing employs. Anticipating someone’s train of thought is sometimes a good way to show the person that you are listening, but it can be dangerous. The thought is that if you can anticipate what a person will say next, you can feel confident that you and your conversation partner are thinking similarly, letting both of you feel more confident about the conversation. However, if you do this, you are essentially playing a guessing game. You might be able to predict the general thread of the conversation, but the price you pay if you make a wrong prediction is that you will derail what may have been a smooth conversation up to that point.

Trying to anticipate what someone is saying may also lead you to commit the social crime of finishing off someone’s sentences. Granted, it is a nice way to show off your uncanny people-reading skills, and it is amusing when it happens to someone else, but most people do not like having their sentences finished for them. It makes them feel unimportant, and that you are showing off. While you might be able to get away with it once, continually finishing someone’s sentences will likely kill the conversation.

Finding common interests

You can ask almost anything you want, but the best questions to ask are on subjects the other person feels passionately about and about interests they have in common with you. Discussing common interests forms an instant bond between you and the other person. It is also a ready-made topic for small talk. You can easily spend much of a conversation talking about an interest that both of you share.

Conversations also run smoother if everyone involved is talking about a topic that interests them. Think back to a time when you have had a really successful conversation with someone. Odds are that you were discussing a topic with the other person that you either felt strongly about or enjoyed. You were not worrying about whether the person you were talking with found you interesting, or how to keep the conversation going. New topics based on that common interest presented themselves naturally, and you and the other person smoothly segued from one aspect of your common interest to the next with as much ease as walking. You will find that talking about your passions are easier than talking about subjects you are unfamiliar with

Case Study: An EntrepReneur Speaks

Mary E. Davis

Entrepreneur, Author of The Entrepreneurial Mom

Intimagemd@aol.com

Mary E. Davis learned to become a skilled conversationalist out of necessity. Since she became an entrepreneur 20 years ago, she was forced to develop her skills in communication and networking. Today, she says she can start a conversation with anyone.

As an entrepreneur, Davis enters into conversations to learn more about the person. “In business, it’s helpful to find out the needs and expectations of others, so I can deliver the service and price they want,” she said. “Plus, by taking the time to talk to a potential customer, it makes them feel more comfortable with me by allowing them to get to know me and my company’s reputation a bit better.”

The easiest way to start a conversation, Davis said, is by offering a compliment — if it is an honest one, that is. She also recommends finding a commonality between yourself and the other person. Davis’s advice on finding common ground shines though in her arsenal of reliable icebreakers. Among them are “How do you know our host?” and “I’ve never been to one of these seminars. Have you?” According to Davis, this one leads to a conversation no matter what the answer. “If they answer ‘No,’ you can go on by saying something like, ‘Well, I heard that we can expect to hear about…’ If they answer ‘Yes,’ you can continue by asking for their opinion of the last seminar.” However, Davis said that sometimes she will just go up to someone, offer her hand, and say, “Hi, I’m Mary Davis . I don’t think we’ve met yet.” Davis also favors a direct introduction when joining a conversation that is already in progress. “Say, ‘I couldn’t help but overhear you talking about…’ or simply, ‘Hi, I don’t mean to interrupt. I’m Mary Davis. I wanted to meet you both tonight…’”

The most important things to remember about having a conversation is to maintain eye contact and use the other person’s name, said Davis. “This makes the other person more likely to remember you.” While the other person is talking, Davis acts as though she is only interested in what they have to say. This philosophy of making the other person the center of attention carries over to small talk. “People love to talk about themselves,” Davis says. “Ask about their occupation, their family, whether they are native to the area or when they relocated, whether he follows the local sports team, if appropriate. You can also compliment something about the other person, like the talk he just gave, how well-behaved his kids are, her unique necklace, and so on.”

Is there anything Davis suggests not doing in a conversation? “It’s best to avoid talking about politics, until you know the other person’s views, or you may offend the person,” she suggested. “Never look away or ap pear distracted during a conversation. Never speak negatively, slander, or gossip.”

In order to practice talking with people, Davis recommends going to a public place. “Make eye contact, smile, speak clearly,” she advises. “It’s always easy to open with something you’ve observed from the other person, like ‘I couldn’t help but noticing you’re reading the new John Grisham novel. How is it?’ If you’re watching a performance in the park, say something like, ‘Aren’t they a fantastic quintet? Have you heard them before?” For Davis, though, the one thing that has really been a big help to her in becoming an expert conversationalist is confidence in herself. “I think that most people are good conversationalists when they are confident in themselves and their own abilities,” she says. “Some reasons people might be shy about entering into a conversation are that they are uncomfortable with themselves; they feel unworthy in comparison to others in the group; they don’t want to appear stupid, uninformed, or uneducated; or maybe they’ve had a bad experience in public that makes them hesitant now.”

What do you do with the information once you have it?

So now you know something about the person you are talking to. You know where he lives, what he does for a living, and maybe even a hobby or two. You might also be wondering what to do with this information now that you have it.

The answer is simple: Learn more about the person. Take one of the topics or pieces of personal information that you have learned and ask the other person about it. At this stage of the conversation, you get to choose a topic that interests you, and you should have many options available. Ask open-ended questions about what you have learned, throwing in a few closed-ended questions for clarification

What About You?

So far, we have discussed ways to get people to reveal information about themselves and how to realize and remember when they reveal personal information. However, that is only half of the conversation. What do you say when the person you are talking to starts asking questions about you?

When you are asked a question, take a second and think about whether it is an open-ended or closed-ended question before you answer. If the question is closed-ended, keep your answer succinct, but embellish it a bit by including some background with your answer. For instance, if someone asks you about your favorite sport, you can respond with an answer like, “My favorite sport is tennis. I started playing when I was 6 and my parents bought me a Snoopy tennis racket. I have been playing ever since.” An answer like that has a couple of details of personal information that the other person can, if he or she is observant, ask about as an open-ended follow-up question. You could find yourself answering questions about whether you started playing because you got the tennis racket, if you like the comic strip “Peanuts,” or even if you played on your high school and college tennis team.

An open-ended question will give you more time to talk about your answer, and you should feel free to disclose more personal information as needed. While you are talking, though, make sure to keep an eye on your conversation partner and ensure that you still have his or her attention. You do not want to bore the other party, after all.

Why Revealing Personal Information is Safe

Some people have no problem with revealing personal information. Then there are those who quake in fear, going through a laundry list of what-ifs that all end in their own personal disaster story. Maybe you assume that the person you are talking to will not like you if you talk about yourself. Maybe you think the other person will laugh at you when you tell him about your hobbies.

People who worry about these things may just be very accomplished worriers. They might, however, just be speaking from experience. Perhaps they were picked on in high school, or had someone politely insult their choice in hobbies, sports, or movies. Regardless of the reason, they now approach conversations guardedly. You cannot really blame them. Who wants to talk, only to be rejected or laughed at?

If you are one of these people, there is one thing you should consider: high school is over. Depending on who you are, college is likely finished, too. You will be talking with adults, and by now, it should not matter whether you know what the latest fashion is, or whether you can hit a three-point shot.

More importantly, you have to reveal some personal information eventually. If you do not, you are on the road to being isolated and lonely. If you have any friends at all, at some point you have to let them see the real you. Not sharing personal information indicates a lack of trust in other people, so think of it this way: The people you are talking to felt good enough about you to reveal some of their personal information to you, so why not return the favor?

Guidelines on Disclosing Personal Information

Now that you have given some thought on whether to reveal your personal information, here are a few guidelines. After all, while you are finally ready to tell other people about yourself, you do not want to answer a standard “How are you doing?” with “Well, I just got done with my second hernia surgery, which is good because my wife has been complaining that she is stuck taking care of the massive credit card bill we racked up during our trip to Los Angeles. Therefore, it will be nice to help her and give her more time for her pole-dancing class.”

If you happen to give a similar answer, the other person will likely get a deer-in-headlights look, and either flounder trying to come up with a suitable reply, or nod politely and notice that his or her drink needs refreshing.

Start slowly

This brings us to the first guideline, which is to start gradually. Do not start revealing personal information until you have had a chance to answer a few typical introductory questions first. These are our verbal handshakes, and they pave the way for the conversation to get more personal.

Do not be intimidated

Secondly, do not be afraid that you are not exciting. So you are talking to someone, and he casually mentions he is training for a marathon, has a friend who is a gourmet chef, or that he is brokering a million-dollar business deal. Suddenly, your life seems drab. You were going to talk about the new company project software you designed, or the fact that you joined your neighborhood’s softball team — but suddenly, that does not seem worth mentioning.

Here is what you do in that situation — go ahead and say it anyway. Maybe you think making corporate software is boring, but the person you are talking with probably does not have your skills in programming or designing. He or she may very well think what you do is more exciting.

If you are positive about your experiences, you will find you have several interesting stories to tell, regardless of whether you are a rock star, novelist, accountant, or janitor. A story about investigating a mysterious noise one night while you were cleaning can be just as exciting as talking about a concert you helped put on in Madison Square Garden. If you are a good storyteller, it will be interesting.

Exaggerating

You are trying to be exciting, but remember that while you are allowed to skip the boring and routine parts of your life, you should never exaggerate. Do not make yourself out to be perfect, do not talk about abilities you do not have, and do not say you have done something you have not. If you do, people will eventually find out. At best, people will lose respect for you. At worst, people will lose trust in you as well. Earning back someone’s trust is not easy. At the absolute worst, he or she will be someone you really enjoyed talking with, and you are now faced with the unenviable decision of whether to let the lie stand, or to tell the truth.

Goals and accomplishments

The final guideline is to talk about your goals and the hurdles you are overcoming to achieve them. People can only accomplish so much in a lifetime, after all, and hearing about someone who has taken a different path is almost always interesting. Remember, while you are talking about these topics, you still need to keep them light. You do not want the first conversation you have with someone to completely focus on your problems.

The person you are talking with might have a solution to your problem. She might have gone down the same path as you and have valuable experience to share, or she might have contacts she can call who will help you. If that was not a good enough reason to talk about your challenges and what you want to accomplish, you might have a chance to help her out. If you are looking for new friends, helping someone with a problem and helping her to achieve a goal is one of the best ways to kick-start a friendship.

The Self-Disclosure Pyramid

As you start to gain trust in the people you are talking to, you will want to open up and reveal more about yourself. As it stands, there are levels of self-disclosure, and they form a pyramid.

At the bottom of the pyramid are the habitual answers. These are the “fines,” “OKs,” and the “all rights” you usually say. On one level, these answers tell other people nothing about you. However, most of the time, the answer itself is not as important as the fact that you gave an answer at all. These rote answers show that you are available to talk, that you are generally in a positive mood, and that the other person has permission to come up and speak with you.

After the routine answers have been given, you are ready to move on to the second layer of self-disclosure: giving out factual information. Revealing facts about you is less risky than talking about things like opinions or feelings. Facts are usually neutral, and they let the people you are talking to start to understand just who you are. At the same time, they let all members of a conversation understand the other person, allowing everyone involved to make a decision on whether the conversation should progress to the next level. Telling people your job title is generally a good piece of factual information to reveal, although if you are unemployed, you might want to skip ahead to talking about your hobbies.

Once you have told people some factual information, you are ready to take the next step. Opinions reveal more about you than facts, and you are also showing more of yourself when you share yours. This is riskier than revealing facts about yourself because if people disagree with your opinions, on some level it means they are disagreeing with your thoughts and your values.

After those three levels, the final level of the self-disclosure pyramid is your personal feelings. You will not (and probably should not) reveal these feelings to anyone except close friends, significant others, and your family. When you talk about what your hopes are, your loves, your fears, and the highs and lows in your life, you make yourself intentionally vulnerable. However, you are also giving people a chance to know the real you, and you get the chance to become closer to others in the process.

The Flow of Information

There is a difference between a conversation and a lecture. In a conversation, you want to make sure everyone involved gets a chance to be part of the discussion. We have already discussed actively listening to the other person and being an active talker, but balancing the two can be difficult.

In order to keep the conversation going, be sure not to talk for too long. At first, generally describe your ideas. Do not go into too much detail until the other person has had a chance to react. You can control the course of the conversation by asking the other person questions about the subjects he or she likes, so let the other person do the same with the subjects you selected.

While you are in the middle of a conversation, you should make sure the flow of communication is balanced. Of course, it is hard to gauge whether the flow of information is equal. Most of the time, you will be able to tell just by the way the conversation feels. If you think the conversation is going well, it probably is. If you think it is lopsided, it probably is.

What if you do not think you can tell? Look at the other person and see whether they are displaying the signs of active listening. If their attention is focused elsewhere or they are leaning back, you have probably been taking up too much of the conversation. Do not worry about it — everyone has hogged the attention at some time. All you have to do to solve this is finish up your thought and ask the other person a question that reverses the spotlight.

How to Change the Topic

Though talking about a common interest is a way to spend the time passing in conversation, eventually you will want to change topics. However, you may be reluctant to do that. After all, you have just found an area on which you have connected with someone. Now you will go into the unknown again, searching for new topics that you may or may not connect with. Fortunately, the process is quite easy.

When changing topics in a conversation, the easiest way to do so is to keep in mind the free information that person has given you. Then, when you are ready to change the topic, you can simply say, “By the way, you were previously talking about…” and go on from there. This works for two reasons:

The same principle can also be applied if you want to shift the subject back. Just say, “Oh, on that last subject we were discussing…” and go from there.

The Ripple Theory Revisited

Remember the ripple theory of conversation, created by conversation expert Don Gabor and discussed previously in Chapter 5. Starting with the core topic you selected when you first spoke with the other person, you can go to the next “ripple,” or the next conversation layer. This will broaden the scope of your conversation. If you use the ripple theory, you will never run out of things to talk about. Even if you feel you have expanded the conversation as far as it can go in one circle, eventually the topic will intersect with another circle, allowing you to segue onto a different subject entirely.

Most of the time, jumping from topic to topic is not a problem; however, once you have transitioned to a different topic, stay with it for a few minutes. If you flit from subject to subject, the other person will get the impression that you do not particularly care about any of the topics being discussed, or that you are not really taking part in the conversation. If either of these assumptions happens to be true, take a deep breath, calm yourself, and try to steer the conversation to a topic you both can enjoy.

If you change the topic to something the other person does not want to discuss, she usually will not come out and say it, but you will be able to tell. She will give a short, clipped answer, and will not volunteer any free information about the topic. Physically, she may cross her arms or stop smiling. If you get these responses, take the hint and change the subject.

Avoiding Certain Topics

What if your conversation partner asks about something you would prefer not to discuss? There are several ways to say you would prefer not to talk about a particular topic, including just smiling and saying, “I would prefer not to talk about that, if it is all right with you,” or, “Why do not we talk about something more fun?” This tactic not only works well when a topic comes up you would prefer not to discuss; it is also good for changing the subject when the conversation veers toward the offensive or controversial. When you decide to change the subject, though, make sure you have a good substitute ready. Refer to an earlier subject and talk about a different facet of it, or ask an open-ended question about a new topic entirely.

If the Other Person is Uninterested

Sometimes a conversation just cannot get started. You have asked the ritual questions, shifted to open-ended questions in an attempt to draw the person out, but she is having none of it. If this is the case, you will want to withdraw gracefully.

Physical signs

If the other person is uninterested in talking with you, she will show it. We have discussed the various ways people let others know they would like to be left alone, especially using body language. If you are talking to someone who has crossed her arms, leaned back in her seat, and is not smiling at you, it is a good sign that she does not want to talk with you.

Eye contact is another good sign. If someone does not want to talk with you, she will not make you the focus of her attention. This may come across as an interest in something else, occasionally glancing at you to be polite, or flat-out refusing to acknowledge your presence, keeping her attention focused on a book or phone. The message is the same either way.

When you are talking to someone and he starts to display this type of behavior, withdraw gracefully. Acknowledge that he is either busy or otherwise occupied, and excuse yourself. For example, “Excuse me, I have something to attend to. Would you mind if I talked to you later?” or “I can see you are busy, so I will excuse myself” both work well. If he seems to be upset you can apologize for bothering him, but it is not necessary otherwise.

You may want to work some humor into your withdrawal, but this may be difficult. Humor works best with people you are already getting along with. A witty remark aimed at someone who is not interested in talking with you may earn you a polite or patronizing smile at best, and may offend the other person if he is already annoyed.

When you have been rebuffed, a natural response is to wonder if you have done something wrong and to try to end the encounter by getting on the other person’s good side. Do not give in to that urge. You are not a bad person because you tried to start an encounter with someone, and the fact that someone is not interested in talking with you is not a personal attack. Instead, look for someone else who seems to be open to talking, then go up and start talking to him.

Maybe it is Something in the Air — and the Room

The subject of communication would not be complete without talking about the effects of the surrounding environment. You react differently based on several environmental factors, such as time of day, amount of available space, amount of light, the differences in weather, the temperature, how loud or quiet the area is, and any ambient scents. These factors can affect how open people are to having a conversation. You will probably feel more like having a conversation in a well-ventilated, open room with softer colors than you will in a crowded, stifling room decorated in “hot” colors like red and yellow.

For a budding conversationalist, this means you should be aware of your environment when you talk to people. You may get a different conversation from a businessperson when you are in a ballroom next to a wet bar than when you are in a convention center’s hallway. Since the environment may have a similar effect on your mood, use your feelings to help determine what kind of conversation you are going to have.

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