REMBERT BROWNE AND EZRA EDELMAN
REMBERT BROWNE AND EZRA EDELMAN
Author illustrations by Loveis Wise
This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity. It took place in Brooklyn, New York, in December 2017.
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The thing about Kaepernick that I find fascinating and so empathy-promoting is that dude stuck his neck out. Like, when no one would stick his neck [out]… |
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Rembert Browne: |
In a sport that’s, like, very anti neck-sticking-out. |
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Edelman: |
In my mind, if he has not been given the space to move forward however he deems fit, I find that unfortunate because I want him to be as much of a voice as he desires to be. I believe that he is more capable based on what I have heard from him, based on that action. So in some ways, because we/I invest more, potentially we might invest more into him because of his willingness to have crossed that line. But by dint of having crossed the line, I still feel like he has done his part. |
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Browne: |
I think that phrase “doing your part” is also kind of interesting because it’s a blessing and a burden that lots of Black people feel. Do something. It’s kind of healthier to think about it like that instead of waiting for one person to fix everything, which has been a moment we often seem to wait for. You know, like the messiah complex, all of that. He’s already exceeded what he was supposed to do. It felt weird thinking this, but I was more impressed by him because it’s hard to figure out where it came from. Knowing Kaepernick’s background—White parents, grew up in the fucking whitest…I’m impressed that he got there. It felt super self-inspired, because no one was expecting it. |
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Edelman: |
I mean, seriously, he’s on his own journey in terms of where he fits in. He’s trying to figure out how to be him within the course of America, within the course of Black America, within its trajectory or landscape. Is he an activist? Do you think he would describe himself as an activist? |
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Browne: |
Like on a business card? |
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Edelman: |
I was going to say a one-word profession on his tax form, is he an activist or an ex-athlete? Or is he an athlete? |
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Browne: |
I bet he’d describe himself as an activist before, like, a leader. I would probably classify him as the opposite. He’s not very active; he’s, like, a learner. |
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Edelman: |
If Colin Kaepernick ends up coaching youth football ten years from now, do you think he would be a disappointment to people? |
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Browne: |
I guess which people… |
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Edelman: |
Not necessarily to you, but that’s the question. What burden have we placed on him? |
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Browne: |
It’s kind of interesting, thinking about, like, John Carlos.1 I pretty much know nothing about his life after 1968. I still know who John Carlos is, which is impressive. |
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I mean, yeah, you’re talking about the symbol. Those two guys, you’re talking about the symbol. |
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Browne: |
Like, I don’t know what happened after that. They got their stamp, so they made it. |
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Edelman: |
They did their part. They’re in the Smithsonian. |
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Browne: |
They’re in the Smithsonian! They’re, like, a whole floor of the Smithsonian. But it’s like—I’m playing it down—they could just be two, like, complete dogs. They could be terrible dudes. I know they’re not, but… |
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Edelman: |
Right. By contrast, certain things can’t be erased. |
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Browne: |
It’s actually hard to un-icon yourself. When you reach that pinnacle, what do you do next? |
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Edelman: |
Well, that’s the fucked-up thing, right? Now what? It’s like, ugh, come on, can I live? |
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Browne: |
When you do your part once, or if you do anything worth note once, there’s a gift and a curse in it. |
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Edelman: |
In the end, he’s the same person who willingly and willfully decided to sit for the National Anthem in the first place. It’s not about whether he did his part and is now like, “All right, I’m good, I can go off.” He’s the same dude who is that conscientious and thoughtful that he’s going to engage the world in a similar way going forward, because that is who he is as a human being. I believe that, and I think that speaks to a lot of people. Does that mean you have to do something every day? Does that mean you have to immediately start the next…you have to become an activist? |
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Browne: |
That’s the thing: It’s like, how does his life play out in practice? He could be an activist and still be an NFL quarterback. That’s one of the shitty parts about all of this. His activism and his football playing are not…it wasn’t supposed to be one or the other. |
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Edelman: |
But I could not help but notice that, walking into the L.A. Coliseum where the Rams play, that there was a group of maybe four Black folks outside on the street. They were essentially protesting for Kaepernick, like, “Why doesn’t he have a job?” But at the same time, it’s interesting: You’re protesting for him, but not for the issue that he was protesting in the first place. He became the cause more than the cause that he was [protesting]. Shit’s coming to fruition. |
1. John Wesley Carlos is a track and field athlete who won the bronze medal for the 200-meter sprint during the 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City. On the winner’s podium, he and gold medal winner Tommie Smith raised their fists in the Black Power salute as a demonstration of solidarity and protest against racial injustice in the United States.
BROWNE, EDELMAN