Peering behind the scenes of the rarely discussed later seasons of The Apprentice offers a view of the real person behind the Trump persona.
The level of detail presented here is unique and for years was kept hidden by the cumbersome confidentiality agreements Apprentice candidates signed. But with Trump in the White House facing bigger issues and Burnett having shown little indication of enforcing those agreements, many participants are now willing to discuss in detail the entire process of casting, psychological profiling, filming, and legally questionable manipulation of the contest. If there is one method of Trump’s on display most prominently, it is his delegation of messy details to those with less standing. Until problems actually touch him, he turns a blind eye. But when they do, he roars.
While no subsequent season of The Apprentice had ratings as high as the first, the next two seasons, still broadcast on Thursdays, also landed in the top 20. It remained a valuable franchise even when season 4 sank to a number 38 average ranking, with about 11 million weekly viewers in the first half of the 2005–2006 television season. Trump’s Apprentice was generating millions of dollars in product placement advertising with each episode. It was worth NBC continuing to invest, hoping a few tweaks and the cancellation of a Martha Stewart–hosted version would help Trump’s original. But with season 5 sinking to the 51st-ranked show in the second half of the 2005–2006 season, a bigger change was made.
Season 6 was shot in 2006 in Los Angeles with Kepcher and Ross, then 78, replaced as assistant judges by Trump’s offspring Ivanka and Donald Jr. Kepcher was bounced from the show and from Trump’s employ entirely. She had parlayed her Apprentice fame into a Saturday Night Live appearance and a bestselling book, Carolyn 101: Business Lessons from The Apprentice’s Straight Shooter. An August 2006 article by the New York Post’s Richard Johnson praised Ross’s egolessness and quoted an unnamed Trump insider insulting Kepcher as “a prima donna.… She was no longer focused on business. She was giving speeches for $25,000 and doing endorsements.” The cast change raised the public profile of Trump’s children, building the impression of them as integral members of the Trump team and paving the way for Ivanka to become a White House fixture with her eventual husband, Jared Kushner.
The winners of the first challenge of that season earned a dinner at Spago with Chef Wolfgang Puck, Trump, and his wife.
Accounts of Trump’s life that cover The Apprentice generally focus on the top-10 success of the premier season and the way the show helped the struggling NBC network just as the hit sitcom Friends was ending. There is sometimes mention of how much money Trump made from it. In a July 2015 press statement to answer questions about his wealth, he claimed $214 million in payments from NBC related to the show. Trump hosted The Apprentice across 14 seasons—seven “regular” seasons and seven seasons of the spinoff The Celebrity Apprentice.
Trump’s time as the big cheese on The Apprentice was his most public turn at a job before he was in the White House. While deciding the fates of striving entrepreneurs is not like overseeing the federal budget or negotiating with Kim Jong-un, the show revealed Trump’s thinking on personnel, money, and social issues while exposing him to public feedback about his decisions. The show was an uncanny prelude to Trump’s presidency—a future he never ceased planning for even in the midst of The Apprentice’s lucrative run.
Jim Dowd: So fast-forward to the fourth season of The Apprentice, which was the end of 2005, and it was New Year’s Eve and usually during holidays when there’s like lull time, he gets very anxious because he wants to be working, or he wants to be part of whatever’s happening in the media. It so happened there was going to be a live shot at Mar-a-Lago in Florida on New Year’s Eve, so we were just talking about that around 5:00 on New Year’s Eve 2005.… We were talking about politics, and he said, “Jimmy, would you be my [White House] press secretary?” I had to sort of sit down, was like, “Well, Mr. Trump, if you’re very serious about it, we should definitely have a conversation.”
Jenn Hoffman, Apprentice candidate, season 6: We had to go to the beach. He was wearing a tie and a suit, and everyone else was wearing Trina Turk, very beachy stuff. He had a makeup artist with him, tiny girl following him around with bronzer, but no one else besides me. He takes off his shoes and his socks, and he’s balancing kind of awkwardly. Then he notices that we’re watching him. Sheepish is too strong a word, but he says almost bashfully, “You can tell I’m not a beach guy.” It wasn’t his usual bravado, leaning into it. It was a little quieter, like he got caught being awkward, vulnerable for a second. Seeing him take his shoes and socks off, I realize he’s a ginger and very fair-skinned, freckled, redheaded. It didn’t occur to me this entire time we were filming, because his suit goes down past his wrists and he always has pants on, he’s not a shorts kind of guy. Occasionally we saw him in like a polo and khakis when he golfed, but he was always covered up. First time I saw him I was surprised at how big he is. He’s not just tall, he’s big and not in an overweight way. He’s got a shoulder-span and he’s solid. He’s just a big dude. Just his presence can be intimidating.
Poppy Carlig, Apprentice candidate, season 10: I had come back for the finale. The first group was doing a golf tournament, and the second group, which was my group, was hosting the after-party. I was setting something up in a back room, no cameras with me, wearing ripped jeans and a sweaty t-shirt, and my hair was in a bun. Trump walks in, and he had just finished golfing, he was sweaty, and he goes “Oh, hey, how’s it going?” We had a very short, but to me, a very intimate conversation, just him being genuinely interested in how I was doing. He asked how my experience was and if I was having fun. He asked what my plans were after, and I really wasn’t sure. But he told me he thought I had a bright future, and I reminded him a lot of his daughter. That really resonated with me, because I know how much respect and love he has for his family. I think he has a TV personality and a non-TV personality. When the cameras are on, he’s on, and he’s very good at selling himself.
Randal Pinkett, Apprentice season 4 winner: The day that I arrived at Trump Tower for the first day of my apprenticeship, I was escorted into his office, and Donald had a stack of magazines and newspapers. Each of them had a Post-it Note stuck inside of the magazine or newspaper. Donald was picking off the top of the pile, turning to the Post-it Note, reading something, and then putting it to the side. As we began the meeting, he did not stop this ritual. He continued as we were talking, picking up the magazine or newspaper, opening to the Post-it Note. So I kind of leaned over the desk to see, what are you looking at? He’s looking at articles about himself. He’s feeding his ego, like, a steady diet of vegetables and fruits. And I said, okay, I get it now. Donald loves Donald.
Derek Arteta, Apprentice candidate, season 6: He has zero gaydar. When we won that first task and we were at Spago, Trump went around the table asking all of us what our marital status was and boyfriends or girlfriends. To me it felt like he wanted to know which ones were going to be easier to move in on at some point. I was at the end of the table next to Melania, and he says, “How about you Derek, you got a girlfriend or what?” And I said, “No, but I have a boyfriend.” He gives me a quizzical look, and I’m like, “I’m gay, Mr. Trump.” He says, the first thing out of his mouth, “So my daughter Ivanka does nothing for you?” The sarcastic version of me was going to shout, “No, but your son Don does!” I don’t feel he was homophobic. It kind of bonded us. At the Playboy Mansion, for example, I was in this private Jacuzzi area with two Playboy bunnies. Trump walked back there, and he sees me talking with the girls. They’re like, “Hi, Mr. Trump!” They’re flirting with him. He said, “Don’t worry, girls, you have nothing to worry about with Derek in the Jacuzzi with you.” And then he winked at me.
Jenn Hoffman: Trump started asking people about marital status, and this is where he discovers that Derek is gay, where we all discover that Derek is gay. Trump said, “I don’t understand it with all these beautiful women.” Then somehow we get to him talking about George Bush, president at the time. He’s talking about how he can’t stand how stupid W is and how his family fucked up the whole thing. He starts talking about how he was always against the war, what a waste of resources it was, how they were so selfish for making it happen. Nobody had to interact with him, he was just going off. Saying it was for their own interests and that they don’t know how to run a country and that if he ran it—and that segued into “Should I run? I think I should run.” He kept telling us that he’d like to run, but if he runs he’d have to win, he doesn’t like to lose. And we’re like, “2008?” He said, “No it’s too early.” Hillary Clinton in 2008 gets brought up, and he says for her, no, he doesn’t think so, too early. He said, “If I run it’ll probably be in 2016, versus my friend Hillary.” I remember very distinctly he said “friend.”
Surya Yalamanchili, Apprentice candidate, season 6: This was day two, and we were all so obsessed with Trump paying attention to us, we’re totally caught up in this myopic world, somehow thinking it’s a real job interview. It’s, “Does Mr. Trump like me? How do I get him to notice me?”
Jenn Hoffman: Nobody’s cameras were up, so we were just shooting the shit at this point. Wolfgang Puck is now seated with us, and Trump directly asked him, “What do you think, should I run for president?” and Wolfgang’s, like, “Uhhh”—suddenly his accent’s 10 times thicker, very purposefully not replying, and then Trump directly asks him again, and he says, “Do whatever you want with it.” Then Trump turns to us. “What do you think? Should I run? Would I be a good president?” And, of course, everyone’s like a bobblehead, “Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah.”
Tesia Kuh, executive administrator, Wolfgang Puck Worldwide: Wolfgang does not have any recollection of the conversations with Donald Trump at this dinner.
Derek Arteta: On my very first interview, I spoke to a junior-level casting person. She said, “Oh my God, I love you, I want to elevate you. I want you to meet the head of casting,” and I went to the head of casting, and he’s like, “Why do you want to be on this show?” I said, “I want to be on any show. I love reality TV.” He said, “I’m going to stop you right now. I like you, you could totally be on this show, but when you get into that room with the producers, you have to 100 percent say that you love Trump, that Trump is your hero.” You’ve got to be a super fan of Trump. If you aren’t, then you should fake it because if he realizes that you’re not a fan of his, he won’t hire you.
Surya Yalamanchili: You’re supposed to go along with the producers. When they’re like, “Hey, so-and-so was moping around in the corner, don’t you think he’s a sulky little bitch? You’re supposed to say to the camera all through this task, “So-and-so is just moping around,” just repeat word for word what they tell you. You go on reality TV, you want to be seen. They say that Trump is so needy for attention. All of us that went on that show, we are also pretty needy.
Derek Arteta: They rented the house. [Trump] didn’t live there at all. He was at the Beverly Hills Hotel the whole time. He had plenty of free time, because we didn’t see him that often. He gives you the task on day one, and then you don’t see him again until day two and day three, and when he filmed, he got in, he got out. The only thing that took a long time was the boardroom. That could take three hours.
Jenn Hoffman: The first thing that happened to me on the show was that a producer wanted me to make fun of Surya’s hair. She said, “What’s your first impression of Surya?” I said, “I don’t do first-impression stuff.” She’s like, “Well, what do you think of his hair?” Surya’s hair was like big and wild at the time, and she said, “Isn’t it unprofessional?” And I said, “Listen, lady, I’m not going to do that.”
Derek Arteta: At the Playboy Mansion, Hugh Hefner took us out to the pool area, where all the bunnies were, and then Trump rolled up.* He introduced us to Hugh, and Trump made a remark, “All the ladies here are so beautiful, I can’t tell which ones are yours and which ones are mine.” In reference to the women on my team.
Jenn Hoffman: Trump, Kristine [a fellow contestant], and I are standing by the pool, and Trump tells us, “Wow, your team is very beautiful, maybe better looking than the Playboy models, and natural too,” looking at our chests, and I started laughing. “Ha ha ha, you think everyone on our team’s breasts are natural?” He thought about it some more, looked around for a minute, and said it again, “Yeah, your team is better looking than the Playboy models.” He did say stuff to Kristine that was what the fuck, like, “You’re married? You’re way too into your husband to win this.” During the audition, he noticed she had tattoos. “Ugh, you’re so beautiful, why would you do that to yourself?”
Kristine Lefebvre, Apprentice candidate, season 6: Once in a boardroom, he said, “I don’t think I can hire you because you love your husband too much. You won’t be devoted enough to the job.” The producers were worried how they could make that work in the final cut if he did fire me then.*
In week seven of the Los Angeles season, Derek Arteta was in the boardroom defending himself to Trump over why he thought it was a good idea to promote Lexus cars by having potential buyers ride go-karts around the dealership.
Derek Arteta: I came up with, how about we do go-karts? They can do it around the dealership, that’ll be fun. And then I realized, eh, that doesn’t really convey luxury, let’s not. And then later on Jenn said, “No, let’s go with it.”
Jenn Hoffman: A producer pulls me outside, tells me the other team is doing mini golf, it’s not going to be that visual, “Do me a solid since you do have extra space and plenty of room in your budget, do the go-karts.” I said I didn’t really want to, and he said, “I can’t guarantee you a win, but I will make sure that it does not come down to you being fired, because we give Trump the notes, and we can make it very clear in the notes that Derek was like ‘go-karts, go-karts.’” He guaranteed me that I would not be fired. That was our deal. We shook on it.1
Derek Arteta: Fast-forward, you get interviewed for several hours the day of the boardroom, before going in. The producers asked why did you come up with that idea, and I’m like, “I’m from Covina,” which you know is in LA, but in my mind it’s a small town, very conservative and very white. “I’m white trash, I like that shit.” I didn’t think those words were going to come out of my mouth later, but in the boardroom it all came out, and the fun camaraderie that Trump and I had suddenly ended.
“I’m white trash,” Arteta told Trump in the boardroom. “I only eat at restaurants with deep-fried appetizers.”
Trump wheeled on Arteta. “What do you mean, you’re white trash … you don’t joke about that … that’s a pretty stinking statement.… You know what? Derek, you’re fired. I think that is so stupid. You’re fired. Go. Terrible. You shouldn’t use that expression anymore either. How stupid can you be?”
Derek Arteta: The publicity people said, “We think this white trash thing is going to get added attention.” Unfortunately, when the show started airing, it didn’t do well in the ratings. In previous seasons, all the firees got to go on the Today show, and our season nobody did because it tanked.
Jenn Hoffman: I got fired three minutes later. They take you out to dinner that night, but it’s to monitor you, make sure you’re okay, try to cheer you up. I thought they must do this with everyone and didn’t say anything at first. Then I was talking with the show’s psychologist to do a decompressing-type therapy thing. I waited about a week to see her, and I tell her what happened, and she’s like, “What?! I did your psychological profile, and if you say that a producer made you that promise, I’m going to believe you, and I’m going to follow up.” She calls me back in her office and says, “Okay, he did this. I talked to JB [head producer Jay Bienstock]. He’s going to talk to Mark Burnett about this. What do you want done? This is something they cannot just sweep under the rug unless you make it possible for them. If you make a stink about this, you’re going to be back on the show.” But I felt like I would look like a sore loser. I get a phone call in my room where we’re staying, at the Oakwood apartments, first from the producer who pushed me. He apologized, saying, “I shouldn’t have done that. It was unprofessional”—never uses the word illegal—but repeats many times it’s unethical and that Burnett and Trump have no idea, but he has admitted it to Jay. Jay called me, “Ball’s in your court, what do you want to do?” and I was like fuck it.* I don’t accept his apology, but I just wanted away from the whole thing. It had nothing to do with Trump; he was the only person I didn’t think was an asshole.
This alleged disregard of game show regulations combined with another alleged incident on the part of producers before the live finale at the Hollywood Bowl shows the fundamental shadiness of the entire Apprentice operation. Trump, tellingly, seemed to function quite steadily in chaos—until a breach of protocol in the finale triggered rage.
Jenn Hoffman: They tried not to pay us. We were in the greenroom for our walk-through rehearsal for the live finale. They come in and tell us, “You aren’t going to be paid at all for this season, because the ratings weren’t good.”
Surya Yalamanchili: When we arrived at the Hollywood Bowl the night before for the walk-through, someone from production was telling us final details of what we needed to know. She spoke for about 15 minutes but didn’t mention anything about our compensation, $1,500 an episode that we appeared on before getting fired. I raised my hand and asked when we’d be getting our checks. She seemed momentarily uncomfortable and then said that she wasn’t sure where we had heard we’d be getting paid, but with the move to LA the show was over budget and that wasn’t possible. I laid into her that Mark Burnett Productions had paid every prior season and the sister show, Survivor, and that was bullshit. She tried to throw others under the bus—NBC, the MBP casting people—but we didn’t relent.
Jenn Hoffman: We go, “That’s not our problem, we all showed up, and you guys make enough money.” They said, “We’re really sorry, it’s not happening,” and we’re, like, “Well, we’re not going onstage.” They said, “You’re contractually obligated,” and Derek goes, “Hold on.” He has a copy of the contract on him, and he says, “Well, that’s true. But you can’t control what we say or what we don’t say because that’s not in the contract. Either we get everybody to swear all over the live finale, or silence, tape over our mouths.” And then we each took a role. Derek said, “I’m the attorney.” I said, “I’m PR media, and I’ll press release this, announce it by tonight.”
Derek Arteta: Surya was a leader of the coup as well. He was pretty angry.
Surya Yalamanchili: I told her how classy I thought she was for being so ready to throw her co-workers in casting under the bus. The NBC lawyer chimed in that NBC wasn’t involved. They had paid the full contractual rate to MBP with the understanding that they wouldn’t have pissed-off contestants. It ended with her saying she’d get back to us since Mark Burnett was in the air. They talked to him overnight, and he green-lit the payment.
Jenn Hoffman: A producer sat in an office and cut us each a check, one by one, before we went onstage.*
Surya Yalamanchili: During the live finale, Trump paid me the respect of consulting with me last before he made his decision of who to hire. I made a joke, “You should ask Sanjaya.” He was the American Idol candidate with long hair who was super famous at that time. Trump was so angry. He’s like, “Brilliant, just brilliant.” He picks the person, and then afterward onstage we find each other in the middle, and I stuck out my hand. Immediately his finger goes up to my face and he starts screaming, “What was that? That was disgusting! It wasn’t funny! Terrible!”
Derek Arteta: The white trash thing never came to fruition in terms of media attention.
Surya Yalamanchili: Making us sleep in tents wasn’t going to save the show. The show was just tired. It needed celebrities to revive it. To some extent even that got tired.