Good for saving the day in tough sales meetings, grueling job interviews, proposal presentations to hard-ass prospects, situations where you’re waiting on demanding diners.
You were steeling your nerves to turn inevitable blunders and slipups into moments of winning, charming vulnerability, and humanity. Well, enough of that. It’s time to get tough and learn how not to take no for an answer.
In 2016, I had the chance to meet with Liz Smith, CEO of Bloomin’ Brands, the company that runs big chain restaurants like Outback Steakhouse and Bonefish Grill. They’re a multibillion-dollar company and it would’ve been a major coup to get their TV advertising business for Sullivan Productions. At the time, their stock price was relatively low, and I wasn’t seeing a lot of good television advertising for their brands, so I thought I had something to offer. Plus, Liz is good friends with Mindy Grossman, the CEO of HSN, and the CEO of Church & Dwight, Jim Craigie, was on the board of Bloomin’ Brands. I used those connections to get a meeting to pitch her, which was pretty convenient since she lives six houses down the street from me.
I knew it would be a challenging meeting. Liz is the powerful CEO of a major publicly traded company, and she’s tough, smart, demanding and shrewd. I ended up not doing business with her company at the time, but that was my choice. That I had the opportunity at all was a direct result of pushing back and flipping the script on her.
I felt pretty good about the meeting before it started, so I didn’t go in armed with a pitch deck or a presentation. I figured I would use my Pitch Powers to start a conversation and feel out the situation. I would spend fifteen to twenty minutes making my case and find out her level of interest. The way I saw it, our work had helped grow Nutrisystem and Church & Dwight, the parent company of OxiClean, and I thought we could do something good for this restaurant behemoth.
I walked into Liz’s Tampa office and we started talking about the neighborhood and how it had changed. Then I asked her about the possibility of working together, and she said, “There’s no way that Outback is going to work with you. We don’t do cleaning products. We don’t do direct response. We don’t do cheesy infomercials.” Just like that, she threw my entire business under the bus.
I was nonplussed—for about three seconds. I’m a veteran pitchman, and we don’t rattle easily. Instead of backing off, which is what I think she expected, I pushed harder. I leaned into the conversation and said, “Liz, I disagree with you. I think you absolutely should look at working with us. I don’t see you in any media right now that is getting any attention. I don’t think your stock price is where you’d like it to be, and I think across Bonefish, Outback, and your other brands, there’s something we can do that won’t cost you a fortune.”
Before she could reply, I added, “By the way, I’m not asking to be your agency of record. I’m not asking for a giant contract. I would just like to sit down with someone in your marketing team to see if there’s something we can do.” Then I went for the power close: “I wouldn’t waste my time driving over the bridge to sit in a meeting with you, and waste your time, unless I thought I could help you. I’m not stupid.” I also knew from my research (preparation!) that Liz had held a senior position at Avon Cosmetics, so she knew plenty about my line of work.
I think Liz was a little surprised. But pushing back broke the ice. She saw that I was serious and passionate. She called her chief marketing officer into the meeting, and as it happened, his background was at Burger King. Jackpot. Burger King is all about direct response: two burgers for a buck, two Whoppers for fifty cents. They’re the direct-response kings of fast food.
I speak fluent direct response, so the CMO and I started vibing like two musicians in a rehearsal space. Finally, Liz said, “I’m really worried about putting you two in a room together because I think something may come of this.” I had made a big pushback, and by pushing back I had ended up face to face with the guy I needed to be talking to anyway.
I asked the CMO how Bloomin’ Brands did its advertising, and when he told me, it was clear they had been following a traditional model that was very expensive. I told him there was another way, and that’s how I ended up with the entire Bonefish Grill marketing team at my office, talking shop and brainstorming. After a while, we hit on a perfect test project: Bonefish had an annual sales meeting coming up and my team would shoot a green-screen sales video for them.
Well, best-laid plans and all that. For several reasons, I decided that the timing wasn’t right to work with Bloomin’ Brands, and I told them I would wait for another opportunity. However, by leaning in and pushing back in my meeting with Liz—something that took balls and a real belief in what I could offer—I laid the groundwork for a solid relationship. Eventually, it paid off: Bloomin’ Brands has become a Sullivan Productions client.
The Pitch Powers I’ve taught you work really well. I’m living proof of that. But they don’t work every time you use them. That makes sense, right? This isn’t mind control; it’s persuasion. So every now and then, even if you prepare and command everyone’s attention and tell a brilliant story, the person across the table from you is going to get that “somebody just pissed in my Weetabix” purse to their lips and let you know they’re not buying what you’re selling. At that moment, you have to make a decision: give up or…
Not every pitch will go the way you hope. Sometimes, the client says, “The other company has a lot more experience than yours. Why should we hire you?” The spokesman for the party of twelve who ran you ragged all night says, “You know, I know we drank it all, but the wine really wasn’t that great. I think you should comp it.” The attractive person you’ve bought three drinks for says, “You’re very nice, but you’re really not my type.” Ouch. Sudden reversals hurt, but pitching superheroes don’t quit in the face of adversity. They push back, flipping the script on the other person by saying or doing something he or she doesn’t expect.
Remember something that’s easy to forget about most pitching situations: the person you’re talking to probably wants to be convinced that you’re the solution to their problems. The person interviewing applicants wants to hire the best candidate. The woman at the bar really would love to be asked out by someone terrific. Did you know Jennifer Lawrence—gorgeous, lovable, Oscar-winning Jennifer Lawrence—says she rarely gets asked out because guys all think she’s out of their league? It’s true. Sometimes, pushback is a test to see how badly you want what you’re pitching for. Hunger matters. When the other person pushes, they may want you to push back to see what you’re made of. Show them.
Remember Susan Boyle? If you don’t know who she is, google “Susan Boyle Britain’s Got Talent” and watch the YouTube clip that comes up. I’ll wait.
[hums an aimless tune somewhat impatiently]
Didn’t that leave you gobsmacked? In case you didn’t watch the clip because you’re on a plane or didn’t feel like getting off the couch, I’ll recap. In 2009, Susan Boyle was one of hundreds of people to audition for Britain’s Got Talent, sort of the English version of American Idol or The Voice. But she stands out not only because of her talent but because of how everyone reacted to her. She was this dumpy, homely woman from this small Scottish village who strutted on stage and told everyone that she aspired to be like musical theater legend Elaine Paige. The cameras showed audience members grimacing at Susan’s appearance and cheek at comparing herself to a West End star. The judges were cynical, too.
Then Susan opened her mouth and a soaring rendition of “I Dreamed a Dream” from Les Miserables came out. Everyone’s jaw fell open. Even Simon Cowell, who can come off pretty smug on the show, was flabbergasted. The audience went nuts and when she finished, gave her a standing ovation. Susan went on to take second place that season, but got a recording contract and since then, has released multiple albums and has a legitimate career as a vocalist. It’s really an inspiring story.
It very easily could have gone the other way. Plenty of people would’ve felt the doubt and animosity from the audience, gotten stage fright, and not been able to sing a note. This was the first time that Susan had sung since the death of her mother, and nobody would have blamed her if she’d been so intimidated by the giant audience and the judges that she’d walked right off stage. But she had the courage to push back.
A lot of people are afraid to do that. They get I can’t do it stuck on repeat in their heads. Yes, you can. Let them know. Let them have it. That’s the pitchman’s inner monologue.
Confidence and a bit of fearlessness are critical for flipping the script. You can have all the plans in the world, but if you lose your nerve you’ll wind up slinking from the room like a kicked cat. You see this all the time on Shark Tank. The aspiring entrepreneur is sitting in front of Mark Cuban and Barbara Corcoran, who knock down their idea. Then the music goes “duh-DUM.” Sometimes, you see the person who’s pitching take a breath and then push back. Those are the people who get funded.
There’s nothing wrong with pushing back and flipping the script. You have to view it as an opportunity. You have to be prepared for resistance, for someone to say, “We don’t want you; this is a shitty idea.” Pushback is a great opportunity for you to show what you’re really made of. When you have the balls to swallow that bitter pill and say, “You know what, I think you’re wrong, and here’s why…” you become an underdog. Anyone who’s successful loves tenacity. When I’m trying to usher you out of the room and you’re not leaving, you have my attention.
How many deals have gotten done after a powerful person said no, expecting the other person to walk away meekly with their hat in hand, but instead the other person stands firm. You get some uncomfortable silences, because when you’re the one who flips the script, you’re not playing by the rules. You’re making them hear you out and tipping the power balance in the room in your direction. Flipping the script and refusing to budge when you get pushback is a boss move that earns respect.
However, in my experience a high percentage of people turn around with their head down and walk out of the room when they get rejected. I think they do that not because they don’t “want it” more than the other guy or because they’re cowards, but because they honestly thought when they stepped in the room that everything would go according to plan.
Pitchman fact: nothing ever goes exactly according to plan. You’re dealing with human beings, which means politics and agendas that you know nothing about. Your product demo might fail. You might have spinach in your teeth. Something always goes sideways. You should go into any pitching situation assuming that somewhere along the line, your Pitch Power is going to fail you and you’re going to be left standing there holding a yet to be determined body part in your hand.
That’s where the “I won’t take no for an answer” mentality is crucial. You really have to believe in yourself and what you have to offer. But there’s also a smart way to approach the potential of failure: by reducing the odds that it will happen. I call that “loading the dice.” Basically, you do whatever you can do to tilt the playing field in your favor before you ever step into the pitching situation. If you’re planning to ask someone for a date, you might have a friend talk to him about all your great qualities first. If you’re going to start looking for a new job, you might publish a few smart articles about your field on your blog. Loading the dice can even be as basic as finding out the name of the venture capitalist you’ll be meeting with next week, finding out where he works out, and just “happening” to be there and introducing yourself. Anything you can do to make the other party see you in a more positive light, do. Because while pushing back against rejection is great, the best rejection is the kind that doesn’t happen.
Here’s an example of what I mean. It was a few weeks after Billy Mays had died back in 2009 and I was out for a run near my home in Tampa. I was still really broken up, because Billy wasn’t just my partner but my best pal. So, in the middle of my run, this kid maybe ten or eleven years old rides up to me on his bike.
“Hey, man, you’re the pitchman, aren’t you?”
What the hell? I kept running but I was polite. “Yeah.”
“Hey, I really loved your TV show.”
“Thanks.”
“I’m really sorry about Billy Mays.”
That touched me. “Thanks, kid.” Then he just took off on his bike. I was floored. What kid just comes up to a stranger on a bicycle and announces himself, super confident like that?
A week later, the same kid showed up at my front doorstep selling magazines. I opened the door and he stepped back and said, “Hi, Mr. Sullivan.”
It didn’t register, so I said, “Do I know you?”
“Yeah, I’m the kid on the bike. John Domenici.” Now I remembered. But did he want an autograph?
“What do you want?”
“I got some magazines.” What guts and smarts! He was selling them for Boy Scout troop or something, so I let him in. Let me tell you, this kid put on a pitching clinic. He knew every single magazine, had the prices down, and what you would pay if you bought three or four subscriptions. He wasn’t good; he was great. He figured out what I liked, did the math in his head on the spot, and hit me for $100. I couldn’t say no to him. But I was super happy to buy them because he was just so good: polite, super enthusiastic, and smart. He reminded me of, well, me!
I gave him the money and he left, and about twenty minutes later he came back. I answered the door and he said, “Mr. Sullivan, I’m very sorry. I overcharged you.” He counted out the money and gave me back about $40, which I couldn’t believe. This kid was amazing. His name is John Dominici, and he and I became friends. He’s got to be eighteen or nineteen by now, and whatever he does with his life I’ll bet he’s a success at it. Hands down, he was one of the best pitch people I ever dealt with. I couldn’t say no to him.
I knew that John had targeted me that day I was out running and said he was sorry about Billy to tug at my heart a little. But I didn’t feel manipulated. I respected it. He had loaded the dice. He knew that if I liked him a little, I would let him in the door and he would be more likely to sell me. He was right. Try it.
But no matter how much you try to load the dice, a real pitching superhero goes into any pitch with at least some basic tools designed to help push back. Here are some of the most effective ones, many of which I’ve used myself.
• Know your audience’s expectations. Before I sat down with Liz Smith, I knew she had a reputation for being tough. I also knew that if she criticized my business she would probably expect me to fold like a lawn chair. That insight let me decide how to flip the script on her by refusing to back down. That intrigued her and gave me an opening. Understand who you’re dealing with and have a plausible idea of what they expect in a pitching situation. Do they expect humility? Brashness? An elaborate demo? A short speech? Formal dress? Shorts and flip-flops? The more you know about the other guy’s expectations, the better you can surprise him or her by going against those expectations if you get pushback.
• Do your research. Flipping the script in the face of an objection or refusal might start with “I think you’re wrong about this,” but it can’t stop there. Your comeback must have two other components: a realistic reason why they’re wrong and a solution that proves your point. You’ll only find your reason and solution if you know your audience extremely well. Do your research into the person or company. What mistakes have they made in the past and why? How can you solve a problem for them? Be specific. Because while “I think you’re wrong about this” won’t convince anybody, “I think you’re wrong about this, because the media market is 400 percent bigger than the last time your company was in direct response back in 2013” is pretty impressive.
• Read the room. Not everybody will push back as a test. Some people are just contrary. Somebody might be having a shitty day or be confused about what you’re offering. Learn which by reading the room when you walk in. Is the person offering objections as a way for you to show what you know? Are you being tested? Or are you dealing with somebody who’s at the end of her rope and just wants to go home?
• Generate fierce agreement. If you do a great job of suggesting an alternative or arguing your case, you might create fierce agreement (which I talked about a few chapters back). Fierce agreement means the other person becomes your collaborator and is totally in—physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually and intellectually. Sometimes you get there by disagreeing with the other person. I will tell someone I think we need to reexamine the issue and have an open conversation about what’s at stake.
This is something I learned from the street markets. You can tell when someone’s 100 percent in because you’ve got them nodding, their money on the table. You could say, “We’re going to sail across the Atlantic solo in a boat” and they would pump their fist and say, “When do we leave!” I cultivate that energy at my company. When we take a project on, I want people invested in it and emotionally excited about it, so it actually makes them feel good to think about it. That emotional engagement is everything. When you fall in love with someone, you’re in fierce agreement, right? All the stars line up. You’re completely together in what you’re doing.
• Know when to stop. If you push back and offer a terrific collaborative approach and still get the stink-eye from the other party, it might be time to cut your losses and step back. There are times when you can push back and make a convincing case but be in a situation where the other person isn’t in a position to agree to anything. In that case, offer up your reason and solution and then make a confident exit. The chips will fall where they may. Or if one person has already made their mind up and is starting to tune you out, you could do what I’ve done: stop my pitch, turn around, drink coffee, and talk to one of their co-workers.
Other occasions when this Pitch Power might save your butt include:
• Getting an offer on anything. Unless you have no choice, never accept the first offer for anything. Demand better terms for a loan. If someone makes an offer on your home, push back with a counteroffer. If you get a job offer, push back and ask for something more, even if it’s an extra week of vacation. Even if the other party refuses, you’ll gain respect.
• Landing an interview. Whether you’re writing a blog, producing newspaper articles, or laboring over a school paper, odds are you’ll want to interview someone influential or important. Trouble is, those people won’t always cooperate. If someone refuses an interview, offer to go to their home, email them questions, or suggest that you’ll just have to interview their archrival instead. Or simply call every day until they say yes just to get rid of you.
• Getting a poor grade. If you’re in school, your work is your pitch. If it comes back with a grade that’s not as good as you hoped, push back. Demand to know why you were given the grade and ask if there is anything you can do to bring your grade up. If your instructor likes you, there may be ways to turn a C into a B+.
There’s a basic truth about getting what you want: no matter how super your Pitch Powers are, no matter how hard you work, reaching your goal is always, always going to be harder than you think it will be when you start out. That’s true of anything in life, I think. Whether you’re trying to get a ripped body, make your business profitable, or get a book published, you’re always swimming against the current. It’s never easy.
So with that in mind, my plot twist for this section is all about Anthony Sullivan’s “Pushback Multiplier Rule.” What on earth is that? It’s my basic rule for calculating how much pushback you’re likely to get from any pitching situation. That’s good info to have, because it prepares you for how hard you’re going to have to work to get the deal, the big tip, or the upgrade. In my experience, it’s much better to approach a pitch overprepared because you assumed you’d be in for a fight than it is to be underprepared because you fooled yourself into believing it would be a cakewalk.
The Pushback Multiplier Rule is pretty simple and works like this: for each obstacle between you and what you want, plan on pushing back 100 percent harder, longer, or more persuasively to reach your goal. These are the kinds of obstacles I mean:
• There are more experienced/qualified people after the same thing as you.
• You’ve never done what you’re pitching to do.
• You have multiple layers of bureaucracy to fight through.
• Your audience is recovering from a reversal or a betrayal.
• You’re asking your audience to do something they’ve never done before.
• You’re asking for an outsized wad of money.
• You’re a completely unknown quantity.
Let’s do the math. Say you want to bring your Pitch Powers to bear in getting a business loan so you can start the surf clothing company you’ve been dreaming about since college. You figure if you meet with multiple banks to find the right fit, bringing all your superpowers to the table, the process should take about two months. But that’s probably not right because you haven’t taken the Pushback Multiplier Rule into consideration.
First, you’ve never gotten a business loan before, so you have no business credit history. Second, you’ve never run a business before. Third, you’re asking for $1 million, a lot more than apparel companies in your area get as start-up capital. That’s three obstacles, which means that getting your loan is going to be about 300 percent harder than you thought. You should plan on 300 percent more pushback, 300 percent more hard questions, and 300 percent more hoops to jump through. But if you expect that, you can plan for it and not become discouraged when instead of two months, it takes six months for you to get to “yes.”
Got it? Just know that it’s never easy to get what you desire. You have to push back, be more creative, and work harder than you can imagine. Know that going in and you’ll be fine.
I’ve already given you a lot of tips on how to get ready to push back, from doing a lot of advance research into their problems to knowing an organization’s culture and what they might expect from you. But there’s no easy, risk-free way to develop the confidence you’ll need to use this Pitch Power. You just have to do it.
Get out there and pitch. Ask your boss for a meeting to discuss a possible promotion. Call your credit card company to argue for a better interest rate. Shop for a car and get ready to haggle like you’ve never haggled before. Even shopping a flea market gives you a good chance to push back when a vendor quotes you a price on something. Whatever it is, offer a lower price. What’s the worst that could happen?
Understand that for most people, pushing back and flipping the script is not natural behavior. Haggling over price is normal and expected at street markets in the Middle East; it’s part of the culture. But in the United States, we’re taught to be well-behaved little consumers. It can be really tough to speak up and say, “No, I think I’d like to pay 20 percent less for this,” and then stick to your guns in the face of all the objections. So test your wings. Try it. Haggle, dicker, negotiate. Ask for more. Don’t accept no for an answer. The more you do it, the more comfortable you’ll become.
But what will really get you excited is when you see how your skill and enthusiasm rubs off on someone else. I’ve seen people light up when someone pushes back creatively against their objections. You see it on Shark Tank: the sharks all sitting there with their arms folded, skeptical. They don’t really want to hear the pitch. But when someone comes in with the right level of enthusiasm and a rehearsed pitch with humor in it, the right amount of value, and strong confidence that they are the answer, even these cynical people get excited.
Try it. You’ll be amazed.
SCENARIOS FOR USING THE “PUSH BACK” PITCH POWER
Q: You come into a pitch and the person is sitting across from you stone-faced, arms folded, looking like he or she is going to push a button and dump you into a pit of alligators if you make one wrong move. Treat it as a bluff or as the person’s real mood?
A: You have to treat it as a bluff, because if you assume that the person you’re pitching to is a rage monster on a hair-trigger, you’re going to pitch scared, and that never works. Assume this is passive aggression and remember, not everybody is demonstrative. Someone can love your humor and only crack a small smile. Do your thing and don’t worry about it.
Q: Someone you’re pitching takes flipping the script off the table before you even begin, by saying, “You should know that any offer we make is final.” If they make an offer, should you respect it or push back anyway?
A: No offer is final. I don’t care what anyone says. Most of the time, that’s just a negotiating ploy. Make your pitch and see what their offer is. If you really want to push hard, before you’re done, give them a number and say, “That’s my floor, so if your final offer is going to be below that, let me know so we don’t waste anyone’s time.” But when in doubt, always pitch from a place of strength.
Q: You’re planning to pitch a potential new client when you hear through the grapevine that they reject every idea presented to them as a matter of course. Cancel and save the man-hours or treat this as a chance to work on your own pushback skills?
A: Always make the pitch. Everybody needs the practice time, and you never know. Maybe the story that they reject every idea is a red herring to weed out the weaklings.